The Dailey Edge Podcast
Join hosts Trent, TJ, and Todd Dailey as they explore the intersections of technology, culture, fitness, and personal growth. Through engaging discussions and personal anecdotes, the trio dives into topics ranging from childhood gaming nostalgia and cutting-edge fitness tech to the pursuit of happiness and lifestyle choices. Whether reminiscing about epic gaming marathons, sharing tips for staying on the forefront of fitness trends, or unraveling the complexities of modern life, The Dailey Edge delivers thoughtful insights, lively debates, and relatable stories for listeners of all walks of life.
The Dailey Edge Podcast
Episode 58: What If Progress Is Not The Point?
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The most dangerous lie about success is that there’s a top. We sit down as three brothers and unpack a realization we wish someone had handed us 20 years ago: the mountain keeps going, the goal line keeps moving, and if we don’t choose our definition of success, the culture will choose it for us.
We talk through why the rat race is so hard to leave even when you’re doing well financially. Some of it is modern incentives, consumer debt, and a work-and-spend cycle. Some of it is deeper: progress is baked into our biology, and so is the fear of being left out. That tribal wiring shows up today as status, comparison, and the quiet pressure to keep upgrading. We also explore whether contentment is a spiritual battle, and how material possessions can pull us away from what actually lasts.
Along the way, we compare the American Dream to other ways of living, from European attitudes toward work-life balance to the Amish model of community and simplicity. We share a story about a family who quit high-paying jobs, slowed life down, and discovered they were spending money on things they do not even miss. That launches a real debate about privilege, kids, expectations, purpose-driven work, and what it would mean to downshift without drifting.
If you’ve ever thought “I’ll be happy when I get there,” this conversation is for you. Subscribe for more honest conversations, share this with a friend who’s burned out, and leave a review with your take: what would you change first if you stopped chasing the next summit?
Welcome And The Surprise Topic
SPEAKER_01Welcome back to the Daily Edge here with my brothers TJ and Todd. Kind of got a surprise topic here.
The Myth Of A Summit
SPEAKER_01One of the things that I realized recently, and I wish someone would have told me 20 years ago, is there's no summit to the mountain. This mountain that we're set out to climb in our lifetimes, we um are told when we get to this level, we're gonna make it. And I spent probably a 10-15 years of my early career where I set the summit. I had my eyes on the summit. Maybe when I get to here, and um I would, you know, I would say there's two ways to climb the mountain. You can scale the wall, you know. You see the person that's got people dangling from them, and they're just going straight up, you know, the face of the wall. And then there's another way, which is kind of like you're walking along the path with the people you love. Um, and I was a scaler and I was climbing to this summit. I'd get to the summit and I'd be like, oh man, like, what that's not what I thought it was gonna be. And then all of a sudden there was a new summit. So I spent the latter part of the last couple of years realizing that there's just no top. There's no there's no top to the mountain. It doesn't mean we don't climb it. Um, and it's really got me trying to think and understand the American dream a little bit more and and what we are seeking and the environment we live in. And um what I've come to realize is that I'm not sure we have it all figured out. Like you look at other civilizations, you look at other I said civilizations, that's not what I meant, but you look at like um the Amish, for example, who uh seem to live life completely differently. Um, and the one thing that I've been reminded of as uh I've reached different levels of financial success, which I don't think defines success, but as I've done that, I realize that I could quit playing the game, or I could have at one point in time, but I choose to keep playing. It's almost like I'm at a casino and I just can't stop. And so I'm curious for for you guys as you think about, you know, Todd, I know you're really focused on progress and purpose and doing things. I feel like there's been opportunities to get out of this game of life from a financial standpoint. Um how do you guys process that? Because I think it's so closely intertwined with happiness, it's so closely intertwined with um what we think we need and the things we're doing, and then you put kids in there and the positioning. And uh I feel like the rat race is really, really hard to leave.
SPEAKER_00I wish we could, man.
Why The Rat Race Is Sticky
SPEAKER_00I really do.
SPEAKER_01Um why can't you?
SPEAKER_00Well, I think that that because you know, as humans, there's the quest for more, right? And and who knows if it's a if it's something that's wired in us, but there's this quest for more and it's put us in-cause of this. Yeah, well, yeah, you're right. And it's put us in this position where it's gonna be hard to get away from it, meaning like, you know, we are where we are because we've gotten to this position where um, you know, what drives it right now is like look at the financial markets, right? Look at these companies every single year. It's gotta be more, it's gotta be more. They've got to make more money, they've got to, they've got to because you know, they have all these people invested in the company that want returns on their money. And and and so there's this continual push to do that. For me, I'm I'm wondering if there is a biological wiring in our brain um that changes over time. And I think what you said is important, right? Meaning, like when we are in in this age range versus this age range versus this age range, is it just a building of perspective that's changing our approach to life or our thoughts on it? Or, you know, are we wired at particular at particular times to do particular things? Because I think in your 20s, specifically, really in your 20s and 30s, it's just like this grind, grind, grind. And then everybody I've talked to, both of you included, I know you, um, it's like something clicked like 40s, where it's like, I don't need any of this, man. Like, could if I could go back and my purpose was building houses, like tiny homes, and that's what I and that's what I would do.
SPEAKER_01Let's go.
SPEAKER_00Right? Like, and I could say, look, you know what? Let's go back hundreds or let's go back thousands and thousands of years where it was trade. And I'm making assumptions around that, right? But like where you traded a good or a service and that's how you survived. Let's do that. That is where it's like if my job was to run around and clear paths in a forest for people to to run on, like I'm totally cool with doing that versus you know the way it is. And I and I don't know, but I asked a bunch of guys out west when I was out for work last time, and they all kind of felt the same way. Like, if I just it's all I need, just give me that, and I'm good.
SPEAKER_01Um, challenge though, like but stopping you.
SPEAKER_00Well, and for me, it's the family dynamic, man. Like, I think I don't know if you and and who knows, dude. Maybe the guys living in the haulers of West Virginia have it figured out. Maybe their families were ultra wealthy coal miners and they were like, This sucks. I'm gonna go live in the middle of nowhere in a house that cost $10,000 and be with the homies, and this is what it's all about. Like, maybe that's it. Maybe the, you know, obviously there are people like that would be a really interesting dynamic. Like, was there just at some point in time in the history of said family ultimate success or some realization? They're like, you know what, this isn't it. Um, so what's stopping me, you know, right now is that I feel uh um yeah, I don't want to make that decision for my for my family. I don't, you know what I mean? I don't want to make that decision and say, hey guys, this is the same thing.
SPEAKER_01You don't think it's the best for
Progress Wiring And FOMO
SPEAKER_01you don't think it's the best for your family, even if it might be the best.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I think it could be great for my family, but I don't want to make that decision for them because there's a lot of things that go with that.
SPEAKER_01I think there are two things that biological wiring that stop you and me and you from doing this. I think we really underestimate our biological wiring and the role that plays. We're absolutely wired for progress because everyone else who wasn't wired for progress 10,000 years ago, they died. So our ancestors, the only ones that survived, were the ones that were wired for progress. That's how we got here. I mean, you look a society that's evolved over thousands of years, hundreds of years, thousands of years. It it's just in our wiring. If you didn't, you didn't make it. And the other, and this is also the case you didn't make it, is FOMO. If you were kicked out of the tribe, legitimately, if you were kicked out of the tribe however many thousands of years ago, you died. Like you were dead because it took everybody in the tribe to stay alive. That was a mechanism of protection, it was a life or death thing. Because if you didn't have the collective skill set of the tribe, there was no way you could survive on your own. You were done. And so the people that were good at that and that was important to them, they stayed a part of the tribe at all costs and they survived. And frankly, because they survived, those are our ancestors, those are the ones that the the lineage. So I think those are the two biggest reasons biological wiring, not that it's right or wrong, because here's the thing today, we live in a completely different environment. It's not life or death. You don't need to be a part of the tribe, you don't need to do this stuff, but we're still wired for it.
Contentment As A Spiritual Battle
SPEAKER_01You know who did overcome that? Who's that? Jesus Christ. Who can hit a curveball? Is this not a spiritual battle? Is contentment not a spiritual battle? Like, didn't Jesus Christ he didn't come in and have to make more money or find more disciples? Matter of fact, he went against that. He went against that behavior. Yeah, I mean, I I I think we're talking about two different things. That was just to explain why I think instinctively the world we live in, why we struggle. Um, I mean, I'm saying we're talking about go ahead. Um, no, I'm saying that this battle is a spiritual battle. The progress, the the the biological wiring, all of that. I mean, because this boils down a lot of this to contentment. I I don't know. Um I I don't know for me if if it's contentment or discontentment. Certainly there's a discontentment with progress, and I think Jesus felt that too. Like he ran himself, I mean, particularly in his missionary years, he ran himself ragged to the point of being crucified on a cross to have progress from a kingdom perspective, right? Like he died for humanity. To me, he wasn't just living a content life doing nothing out in the wilderness. Like he he ran himself into the ground because he had the greatest purpose of all time. And so, I mean, the things that he would town to town to town to town, the miracles, the preaching, the the all the things. And dude came under massive criticism along the way. Like, you want to talk about being outcast? He was outcast everywhere, but he just continued to wasn't an outcast everywhere. I think it would be hard to know Jesus' disposition if he was going through like stressed out, wore out, tired or the life-giving things. I I mean, I think he was obviously very incredibly well balanced. He spent a lot of time in isolation and prayer, and he maintained which fed the other side of it. Fed the other side of it. It would be interesting, but like obviously he had no material possessions, is where I want to go. Like, we're back, you know, and even biblically referenced the material possessions, the the things that will rot and turn to dust is constant warnings of like those aren't the important things. So, do you think there's a because I'm I'm I'm assuming that those are important and they've taken a uh a threshold.
Europe, Amish, And Different Values
SPEAKER_01One of the things when we were over in Europe that was fascinating was they're like, you Americans just work too much. Like, he was like, We don't you guys work all really hard to buy all these things and like nobody even cares. They drive smaller cars, they live in generational houses, they just they don't care about all the stuff, they just want to get together and be merry and enjoy one another and make memories. Uh, I would say it's not much about making memories. We obviously spent some time in Amsterdam, and uh I think I was that was the big joke that Amsterdam was like my home. Uh that I loved Amsterdam for some of those very reasons. It's not a very status-driven place, it's a very transactional place. It's not a little, it's not there's not a lot of schmoozing and that sort of stuff. It's just a very straightforward people doing their thing, but I wouldn't say it lacked purpose. And that's where I think I don't think it does have to lack purpose. Right. And that's where when it comes to work for me, I think I'm not one who's working to buy. Like, I my disposition isn't I have to have this, I have to have that, I gotta do this. Sometimes I'm just like, okay, what the heck? Like, you know, but like for me, in fact, two of my three jobs, I make zero dollars an hour. So it's not a I have to work more to buy more. So and and so I but you have to my my whole point on that is you have to work because you've got to pay for something. Because if you didn't have to and you didn't have to worry about money, you wouldn't have to work at all. Yeah, I mean, certainly there's a part of it, but um, yeah, I mean, of course, we all have to make a living, as do they. Uh, and so what your bare minimum is or what you need to live and how and or how you want to reinvest your resources for your family or the greater good of the community, I think is to me, it's less about how much work you're doing and how you what type of work you are doing to move the world forward and or um how you're using those resources.
SPEAKER_00Do we think let's ask this question, do we think it's a cultural maturity thing because America as a as a as a country is so young? That is why, you know, some of these more developed countries, you know, we're we just had our 250th birthday. A lot of these countries have been around for thousands of years, and you're talking, you know, Asian Asian um society, you're talking longer than that. Or is it a function of kind of what you talked about earlier? The people that came here were like wild men. Oh, I'm just gonna get on a boat for a couple months and maybe die and like that shit crazy, yeah, to come here. So, like and obviously we're very competitive, having to win, you know, having to not just fight the elements and fight disease, but also fight the natives and fight other groups over the years. So it's a very resilient bunch. So is you know, what is contributing to this continual need for more, more, more, more, more, bigger, bigger, bigger, better, better, better. Um, is it do we see it leaning towards one side or the other?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, you mentioned I the one thing I wanted to point out, it's a it's a great question. Um and I think to point the more, more, more thing, I would separate from hard work. That's the I think that's what I was probably trying to say there is like I think those are two separate things.
SPEAKER_00Oh, they are two separate things.
SPEAKER_01And so like you look at like the Chinese culture, extremely hardworking, insanely hardworking, but the it's not in a no I need to buy a bunch of stuff kind of way. It's like they like are are searching for something deeper. Some of them. Yeah, my my question would be is like personal debts at an all-time high, that 95% of all people are working and living paycheck to paycheck. For sure. Like probably like so. I think that's the correlation that I'm making. And sometimes the work maybe for sure purpose driven, but we are we have to work so hard because we consume so much is kind of the the that's the point that I'm trying to tie it, tie together. And that seems to be a widely accepted uh comment.
SPEAKER_00It's almost something you have to, you know. I talked about earlier and I wanted to make that decision for my family. It's like almost something you have to find out on your own. Because the cliche is, is that the guy who's always like, there's no summit or money doesn't solve your problems is always the guy who's been there. And it's like it's like you almost have to experience it firsthand. And if you haven't, you know, um, I Tara won't probably won't mind me saying this, but like Tara grew up in a different social class, and so
Keeping Up With Status And Comparison
SPEAKER_00she hasn't had the chance to go through and see, oh, it doesn't, but maybe you know, in the next decade, having lived or experienced whatever, it's like, wow, this isn't this.
SPEAKER_01When you were growing up and you had this dream of making a certain amount of money, we're like, man, when I make this amount of money, 100k was always a number. Yeah. If I made 100K, like I could live however I wanted and do everything.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Then you got there. And then it was like, if I made 200k, right? And then you probably got there. And then now it's like, what is it? Um the goal line just keeps moving. It will always move. I will hear, I'm here to tell you it always moves.
SPEAKER_00And I've never and I never thought that. I mean, you know, you all you you hear that, but again, I think it goes back to like having to experience it firsthand because you hear that and you're like, there's no way.
SPEAKER_01Like the house gets a little bigger, the cars get a little nicer, the restaurants get a little better. Uh the experiences you sit in first class instead of middle class, but at the end of the day, it's like it's all the same. You I think it's I I think the root of this, like initially I answered that, and I I think I took offense to what the Europeans were saying because of the separation of those two things that hard work is bad. And and so, but if I'm looking at the American society in general, I think it's a fair observation. Um, I think people um I think I think people I think people struggle with um purpose these days. I think it has become, and I I think some of this goes back to our wiring just being so different. I think we our wiring is for a world that was so very different than this. I feel like a lot of it is tribal, just to go back to that. I think a lot of it's tribal and fitting in. I don't think it's a number. I don't think it's I have to I have to make this much or have this much. It's I want to have what my neighbor has, or maybe something a little bit nicer because it positions me from a societal, a tribal, and a status perspective. I feel like that's what drives it. And and that's where I think people just get lost because and you jump some, you know, when you jump social classes, it's like what was relative, right? It's all relative, and then you come up here and you're like, you know, and then there's there's always a social class. Like you, you know, it's like Delta Sky Miles. When you think you're in the front of the line, you're never in the front of the line. I'm never in the front of the line. You're diamond platinum, but you're not in delta league.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I'm appalled now. I'm I'm I'm gonna put platinum now, and I'm like boarding in zone four. Holy cow!
SPEAKER_01There's no backstory.
SPEAKER_00It's unbelievable. I've been in zone one for the last decade.
SPEAKER_01That that I think is the crux of it. We've got to figure out how to get out of the race of of comparison. Comparison.
SPEAKER_00Why do we why yeah, yeah, you're right. It is. I think we've talked about this. I mean, we've done a lot of episodes now, and I think we've talked about this before. I know we have. I think we did an episode on on why the measurement we use has to be typically financial.
SPEAKER_01Like that's the person we're closest to that. Um, so I was
A Family That Quit The Game
SPEAKER_01having a conversation with someone, and I'm not gonna give any names, that um kind of blew me away a little bit. Uh cross is going off, must be a good story. And she said, Yeah, um, me and my husband both quit our jobs, and um they both had good jobs, um six-figure jobs, have a couple kids, and they quit uh about a year ago, and they just started doing things differently. They live in a neighborhood, you know, a nice neighborhood here in town. Um, they both get in the car to take their kids to school, they both hop in the car to pick them up. Um they've kind of stopped the rat race of sports, and they're like, they cook meals together and like, man, how did we spend all this money eating out? They're like, I don't even know what we used to spend it on. Like, completely shifted and didn't leave their community at all. Still have all the boys' friends from the classes doing the different things. I mean, they have a pool at their house. Um I'm assuming they just stored up a bunch of money, and they're just living. They store it up and or they and then they realize they're not spending a bunch of money because they're not. She drives a minivan, like paid off minivan. They have zero income. Yeah, they've been unemployed. Now they pick up some part-time stuff here and there, and they're like, Yeah, I think we're gonna go back and do some part-time stuff here in in November and maybe work 20 hours a week, you know, or something like that. But like mind-blowing. And then one of my really good friends, like, used to work at a place where you know they he parted ways, and he spent the last four or five months just kind of sitting around and figuring out what what he wants to do next. But for the number of times that I've had the opportunity to leave the rat race, I never did. I doubled down. And so to me, I struggle with it just as much as anyone else of like I make enough money to get out of the rat race to stop, to stop the bleeding, to stop the purchases, to stop, you know, I don't need to go buy boxes of cards at a thousand dollars, you know, like I can make the decision if I can and I can do it and not leave my community. Not saying that I want to quit my job by any stretch because I love my work too, it's purpose-driven, but the need to continually take on more things and do more things, whether it's impact-driven or purpose-driven, it's like when I was listening to her tell me that story, I was like, why haven't I made that choice? It was almost like this freeing, kind of like real intentional, and we were talking about sports and like, oh, well, we're gonna get back into them, but we don't want to be like five nights a week. We really enjoy this time. It's it just was like, it just it almost slowed me down. Like I slowing on this conversation, it was like, huh.
Privilege, Downsizing, And Family Expectations
SPEAKER_00I'd have to, I this goes back to a conversation we had in a prior podcast. I'd have to understand why. Like, not not necessarily stopping the working thing. And I and I'm gonna say this, I think we're we want to make sure everybody we're conscious of the I know this word is overused, of the level of privilege. Like you said, what do they save up a bunch of money? Like, you know, the reason I I would I wouldn't do that tomorrow is I don't want my house foreclosed on, I don't want the cars repossessed, you know, and and all of the other things that would come with just, oh, we're gonna stop, and all of a sudden it's all gone, you know, over a three to five year period when all the money that is in your net worth or whatever it is runs out. Um and maybe you figure it out in the meantime, but.
SPEAKER_01The other thing is like you know we stopped sports and we've stopped like you know and we're they they didn't stop sports particularly they just they just they weren't doing five nights a week they weren't doing the the incredible you know amount of stuff what's real interesting is I think because I think at any point in time like we could sell a bunch of stuff and live way below our means yeah and build up enough to not have the pressure of having to work so hard to make sure we can keep all this stuff that we have. And that's the premise behind it is like we live to the limit as a society most of the time, especially during your 30s and 40s when you have I think those are the hardest years because you're worst. I mean, I think 50s is your biggest, like kind of get over the hump because you have the young kids, you're trying to grow in your career, you're you're doing all the things. So I think 30s and 40s are really hard, but we continue to upgrade different things where all of us in this room could make this different decisions to downsize and to easily take financial pressure off of us, but yet we choose not to. And I you've actually put a lot of thought into this. Yeah, we have. We continue to look for opportunities to do that. Um, and you have people that have done this, right? Talk to me about the logic behind it. Uh well, I think that's where I was gonna go. A lot of this comes down to the why. My one of my biggest concerns is expectations, which is you said, like, I'm doing nobody any favors. I'm not doing my kids or my family any favors from an expectations perspective. It's like, why? You know, and then the comfort is so good at home. Not only are there expectations getting soured, but they're the comfort at home is is a discouragement to getting out and building relationships and connecting with people and playing sports or doing things outside the home, which is is what's going to be critical for future. So I feel like these habits, these habits and these characteristics are being bred off of this insane amount of comfort that they have around the house. So to me, but I but I think the reason I share that is because I think no matter what you do, you can do it for a right reason or a wrong reason. If they want to to stop working and pull back on athletics just to sit around and do nothing, I would, I don't think that's any better than working, you know, and running the hamster wheel for the for a similar purpose. Um, I think why, what's the end goal, what's the outcome you're trying to achieve is the way to evaluate. It's it's not so much the what is the why. So if someone is doing that because they want to instill certain values in their kids, they want to live a more life that aligns better with their values or their religion, or they want to set a better example or whatever, 100%. I'm all in on that, but I think it hinges on that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, you know, yeah, it does. Um yeah, I was thinking about it, it's like a lot of instances. You you talked about tribal earlier, and I think something that kind of aligns that is kind of being fear-mongered into this is what you have to do or else. But but I do agree, um, you know, just observationally looking at people that we've known or or people in general, you know, I think that the ultimate goal is being a contributing member of society yourself, um, or contributing to community yourself, and then your kids kind of being the same way. And um, you know, that's why I have such a maybe visceral reaction to like woo-woo shit. When I say that, but I'm like, I know, you know, that there are there's a time in life to follow fish around the country,
Comfort, Purpose, And The “Why” Test
SPEAKER_00you know, cool. But going to shows, jam-band shows in specific, and seeing some dude who's 55 selling grilled cheese in a parking lot, um, you know, like we talk a lot. I mean, seriously, though, that's a real person.
SPEAKER_01Grilled cheese in a parking lot.
SPEAKER_00And and we talk about that kind of that, I mean, you know, that's like the conversation we've had around Wally, right? Where, you know, you keep going down this path and you're eventually rolling around in a, you know, in a motorized cart drinking a soda.
SPEAKER_01Um drinking that is totally where society's heading.
SPEAKER_00But it's like, and you know what, I talk a lot about that. And I kind of like it because the the more we're going, the more people go down that path, it's like everything else, man. It's that same canyon, you know, it's that same uh principle where things diverge. The easier it gets, the more I was thinking about that the other day, the more hard stuff we create. We've talked about coal plunging and sauna, and you know, back when today, back when people were, it's kind of funny. So you think about back into you know, back into the middle of the 20th century, right? Middle of the 20th century, a lot more manual labor, right? People are working in factories, people are, you know, XYZ. Well, back then they only had the marathon. And now, as it's you know, that there is a very focused niche of people that do the majority of that work, and there's now we need to create things that are even harder to balance it out. Now we have to have 250 mile races, you know, and it's like uh so what you're saying is progress is bad.
SPEAKER_01Well, I I mean, you know it that's really good, TJ. I I can't sit here and help but think of mom. Because mom, I remember a few distinct things. One is she lived a pretty simple life. Like, mom, it was never about the money. Mom, it was about helping the kids. So you could say she was purpose-driven. I mean, not that we grew up without, but um I'll never forget when uh I started to become financially successful. I would come and want to talk to mom about it. And she was never impressed. She never, I was thinking she'd be like, okay, my son's made it, he's doing good. And mom would just she knew something then that I didn't know. And I so wish she was here to have these conversations now because I understand what she already knew that I didn't know, and she just didn't pursue and she didn't chase, and she didn't, she just lived it differently. And I'm just like, when I think about these other cultures, and this is where Todd will probably challenge me. When I think about these other cultures that focus on relational things, you talk about when we were over in Italy and Greece, and um in Greece, these kids would be out playing until midnight in the streets, and all the families would be out there, and they don't work a whole heck of a lot, but they're just the environment and the culture, and they don't need to work a lot a ton because they don't need to produce a ton for the man, you know, to some extent. So all this
Homesteading Dreams And Ancient Biology
SPEAKER_01does all this progress in business and all these things really matter? Like, is it a means to an end, anyways? Is it any more or less important than a community that just a tribe in the middle of you know, wherever that just survives off of each other and has a tribe-like atmosphere or like the Amish?
SPEAKER_00Like, is there really any It's funneling us all down into the same? I don't know why I just had this thought. It feels like it's funneling us all down into this very um specific skill set. You know, as AI can as we talk about AI continuing to advance, it's like, what are we all ultimately going to be? If you're not a good sales guy, you're done. You know, like like or something at the end of the day, where if you look back, there were all these diverse roles. There were all these different things that people have had to do over the years to for a community to succeed. We don't need that anymore because the one farmer, right, farms for the state or whatever it is, right? The one we've we've we've progressed so much and things have gotten so efficient. It's like you walk into some of these factories now, and it's like the five guys that are responsible for keeping the machines running instead of a factory of 3,000 people, it's a hundred people keeping the robots running. And so now it's like you said it. Maybe it maybe that is it. Military, college, which ultimately I think most of the people we know, more often than not, what's your degree in? Business, marketing, you know, or the trades. Like those are now the three things you do versus all of the diverse things you used to have to do.
SPEAKER_01But you could, you could, and I know your wife's talked about wanting chickens, but you could move out into a more sparse area. You could get chickens, and you could have you could have your homestead to where you don't rely as much on the system. And a lot of those jobs, like I have a niece and they have kind of a homestead, and they all do jobs on the farm. I mean, they're it's stuff like you know, mowing the grass and um, you know, getting the eggs from the chickens and growing the garden and watering this. I mean, they're all these they're it's manual labor, it's back 50 years, it's just un unwinding the clock. Um and you can you could tech I say everyone could do that. I realize not everyone can do that, but it just when you think about certain cultures live life for relationships and families and communities, and they don't buy into the progress flywheel that we have with corporate America and everyone trying to keep that big engine running. There are two succinct ways to live, and I'm not sure once I would if I had to argue, I'd probably say the cultural relational, just because that's how I'm wired, is probably more fulfilling and just as good as this one with a lot more meaning. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's I don't I certainly from an Amish perspective, and I got to see a lot of them when I drove up. I don't know, you guys, I don't know if you took the same path to the Nerve Invite. I mean, they were everywhere. Um, that was fun to see. Uh I and I don't know that um their lifestyle choice is any better or worse. Um I mean, a lot of it just looks a lot of it comes down to how you look at life and what's the purpose of it. And honestly, it's what the purpose and and we've had a lot of people. I mean, there are some people heavily religious in the Catholic realm that would love to go just be out on a homestead and do their thing, and that comes up very often. But a lot of also what comes up is like don't you want to be in the circles to be able to influence the world that's heading in a not so great direction? Now that assumes that someone's going to be um meaningfully involved in that if you're gonna immerse yourself into it and not an advocate for it, or um, but uh to me it's that's what it all comes down to. Even from a spiritual perspective, if you're like, hey, evangelization is kind of my game and I want to get as many people to heaven as possible, that's gonna be really hard to do out on a homestead.
SPEAKER_00I mean, are we are we too far gone?
SPEAKER_01Like just meaning relation is that even uh relationing relationally driven cultures versus progress-driven cultures.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but can't but our but my point is are we too far gone? No, but here's here's what I mean by this: like you're looking to downsize. I bet one of the and I was talking to one of our buddies, uh Phil, the other day about this. If you want to buy a house now, even if you want to downsize, just throw 100 grand in the fire. Because, you know, and and I was watching something the other day that's like rates, because most of us have rates, you know, three-ish, you know, maybe a little lower, a little higher. And I was watching somebody talking about the market, like these aren't going down for a considerable amount of time. So depending on the size of home you're buying, you're burning cash uh to do that. Um, and then you look at some of the acquisitions by some of the larger financial institutions that are buying up all of the land and all these different things, whether that's individuals or or corporations, uh, what does it look like now for somebody to go and and buy a homestead and uh start that whole process? Is that even available? Or are we in a situation where you're kind of forced into um you're forced into a different path where look, you know, uh you can't you can't afford a $400,000 lot or a $200,000 lot or whatever. You know, you can afford a trailer on a whatever, or you can afford an apartment, or you can afford this, that, and the other thing. And then getting from A to B is getting increasingly more difficult.
SPEAKER_01I think the way back is to start with the next generation. The hard part with that is is like I think the other hard part of making a change for your family is going away from the things that you desired or that we've worked for or wanted. Like, if I came home and told my wife we're selling the lake house, I may not be married tomorrow. I mean, but that's the reality of like I sell that thing. I mean, that that's I did whatever I want. But like that's a choice that we made to continue to use that for kingdom work to create memories and to invite people into our home. And we've continued to do that. Um, but I'm ready. I mean, I I I would love any sort of challenge that we want we want to take on.
SPEAKER_00Let's let's start a YouTube channel and we'll go to the woods and we'll just build it all from scratch. We'll buy one of those like floodplain, one of those floodplain lots on the way like in Elwood. It's always it's like a complete swamp.
SPEAKER_01I got 36 acres out there
When Progress Becomes The End
SPEAKER_01that we can just stop farming and we can build up. We can all three build houses there. We can build our own running track. Jenna can teach math, Angel can teach cooking, culinary, and I will tell you guys we'll go back to our roots.
SPEAKER_00That it's so rewarding to see when when you see the um when you see that biology present itself. Like K K recently, um, I've I've taken them so to keep the running interesting, we've been visiting different parks, and to see how excited they get about exploring trails by themselves in parks. I'm sure your kids, you know, but like it just you could like that's ancient, like that's our ancient biology, being like, yo, I'm you know, that used to have to track animals and all of these things and for days and hunting, and you see, like somewhere wired in there is this, and and now it's like, oh, can we go to this new trail? Can we go to this park we've never been to? Can we go explore in the woods? And and we used to do that as kids, you know, we'd we built the forts back there behind the pond, and and you know, we would go and do those kind of things, and it's so cool to see that. And I would love it, would be a it's scary as hell because you hear, and and you've seen it firsthand with with your in-laws, farming is tough, and um you see how much effort that takes, you know, six hours of sleep a night and 20-hour days during certain times of year, or 18-hour days during certain times of year. But man, I can't imagine the fulfillment that those of you out here who have done this get from building a home by hand, you know, and working and doing and learning how to do all these things. I think it'd be a really dope way to live. Um, and it's cool to see that stuff present itself in today's society.
SPEAKER_01I think one of the challenges with that is what used to feel like progress no longer does. I think about, you know, if you woke up to work on collecting the food to cook your dinner, all of a sudden it's like, am I really doing anything with my life? But that's how it used to be. I mean, your your daily interactions were with your, you know, I'm sure there was play involved, but it was like, how am I gonna survive today? Where it's like, if I can go through Wendy's and get my food and eat in five minutes, I don't have to like food and eating is a chore. It's not a process and a but like your whole life becomes around staying alive and doing those basic things. And I think we would all struggle with that feeling like progress or like we're accomplished anything. Like, did I just waste the whole day like picking tomatoes and then you know going out and collecting eggs and then cooking? And like, I think after three months we'd all be thriving. We'd because I think that's much closer to the world that we we evolved in. But but but would be cooking a meal would feel like progress, picking it and growing it, and like being able to eat something that you grow would feel like pro like But it but if you had the ability, and this is where it gets interesting.
SPEAKER_00If you had the ability to innovate to help your neighbor, would you want to? And I think that's why we are where we are. You know what I mean? Like people were doing that and they were providing from their family, like, hey, I could come up with this thing, and that would let me help my neighbor. And then all of a sudden, you go from homesteading to a little bit bigger farm, to a little bit bigger farm, to a little bit bigger farm, to hey, how do we get everybody to Mars, which is where we are now? Um, and and I think that's like that. I mean, that's that's probably how it all evolved eventually, is like, hey, we can make this a little easier and a little better. And then it's like we're realizing that that's not that's not always a good thing, and there needs to be a little bit of back and forth, and there needs to be a little bit of fight. Um, or you just have a bunch of zombies with crazy mental health issues that uh just continue down that path.
SPEAKER_01I can't tell you, like when I do the dishes, like mentally, I'm in such a better place after that. Like just small tasks like that, where you're using your hands, it's the same as woodworking, it's the same as Legos. Like, we found ways to like like uh uh just did one line substitute, yeah, and it like mentally, but like I think some of that where can you imagine? I mean, the the gratification of like growing your food and picking it and cooking it and then building your own like yeah. I mean the you talk about gratification. Uh yeah, I think it'd be fascinating. I I just you could live off of very, very little if you get to that point where you have that I mean amount of money you would need to survive would not be much.
SPEAKER_00It's just like but then it comes, we go back to like the purpose of life, right? And in contributing to society as a whole, like in what what does that look like?
SPEAKER_01You don't want to isolate doing that basically. Like, well, and I don't think you I don't think you would school.
SPEAKER_00It's a yeah.
SPEAKER_01Because you'd still go to school and you just do things and you or maybe you're maybe at that point you homeschool because your kids work there and they do there would be an unbreakable family bond.
SPEAKER_00What is the point? I guess it goes back it goes back to like what is the point of being here?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, that that's true. Because you think about like I think it would take a lot of soul searching to understand if that was the right decision or not, and what are the that the roots of it, right? If it's just like, oh, we want to live simpler and not run on the hamster wheel, cool. That would be easier in a lot of ways. Is easier better? Not necessarily I don't think it'd be easier. I I think there are aspects of it that are more tuned with probably how we're wired, at least that would be my take. But I look at like, okay, so let's take sports, for example. Sports, you know, you and I probably are more in this camp. We've talked about like taking the opportunity for sports to give kids an opportunity to see how effort and uh precise effort can allow them to grow and excel in certain areas of life, right? Just like that, proving out that process. That if that all of a sudden was off the table and that kid was curing or nurturing a garden, right? And watering and planting and picking and whatever, and like we ate the food, and like I that's where I would have to like do some soul searching to feel like, is that right? Is that better? If you if you did that, you probably wouldn't have cancer. So if you'd eat the natural food. I mean, that's the maybe. There's a lot of people out there. I'd have to look at that and see a lot of people say that a lot of people have died over the cancer over the years, but it wasn't as well.
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean, again, but that goes back to like that goes back to why we're here. Like, you know, lifespan until a while back had significantly increased because somebody was like, you know, these diseases that are killing us, we need to come up with a way to fix these particular things. And so, you know, again, back to like if everybody was on this, I think you said hamster wheel, where it's like, okay, I wake up, I homestead, I go to bed, and this is what I do, and we focus on these other things, whether it's spiritual growth or or whatever, whatever, um, you know, again, yeah, I think you're right, kind of soul searching as to like, is this, is this, you know, if my son or or daughter or whoever, and their job is to, like you said, uh plant, harvest whatever, a f a field, a garden, a whatnot, like is is that is that just it? And and maybe it is. Maybe that's it. Maybe that you know that's they are about what it compares against.
SPEAKER_01Like, what are you doing now? What am I doing now? Like for sure. Selling cell phone accessories and selling insuring a I mean, the more people buy, the better off we are insuring stuff, you know. Like um I know for years one of my good friends had self storage units and they were a hundred percent at capacity. Which is wild. I mean, they just buy it and then they fill it up, and then once they fill it up, they never want to empty it, so they just keep it. It's wild and they keep paying, and it's it's just crazy. It's just really interesting because a lot. Life when I think about this now that we've gone down this a little bit deeper, the purpose of a lot of what we do now, the progress of a lot of what we do now, I'm not sure how meaningful it really is. Um and in a life built around relationships where it it's a fascinating topic because I don't think we can uncover it all here. I'm not saying none of it's imp important, but it would be interesting to experience the other side to understand like what is it like to not be in the pressure cooker, to not be as dependent on things, to just live a life that's a little different.
SPEAKER_00Where do you think it jumped the shark? Did it jump the shark when it comes to the why? Meaning that like we talked earlier about uh we'll just talk about you know, like the invention of we'll use something fairly recent, the combine, right, to help plow a field as opposed to doing whatever by hand. Um, is it is it meaning is is the difference in I developed this so I could make more money covering a harvesting a large, or is it like, oh, I can better society by inventing this thing? Like, is that the is that the point? Because you know, you go all the way back, we'd be doing everything by hand. Tools didn't even exist at some point. And at some point, somebody's like, oh, these tools, and it probably was these tools will make this easier for everybody so that we can thrive, people can eat better, they can stay healthier, live longer, whatever. But at some point, somebody came in and they're like, huh, you know, I'm the only one that can make these tools really well. And if I make these this much better, you know, people value this more, and I can be, you know, then the ego comes into play, and you're trying to separate you. So it's, I mean, we could probably talk about this for three more hours.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I think that's legitimate. I think there's a part a part somewhere in there the means became the end. And I think that's very easy to get mixed up.
SPEAKER_00Um, and that's like does Elon really want to be a trillionaire? Is that what this is all about? Because that's what everybody paints, or is this like, yo, we've screwed this planet up, we gotta get off here, we're all gonna die. And I'm really, really, really doing this for the good of humanity. Like, this is why, you know, he's a perfect example.
SPEAKER_01Like, he he didn't he didn't have to start SpaceX. He could hundreds of billions of dollars, didn't have to do anything else. Like, that's someone that seems to be driven by purpose, but then for humanity to to your point. He's like, I'm gonna use the the God-given brand that I have and all the resources I have to better humanity. I I I appreciate that. So I don't think there and he's employing a lot of people to do it to help him to do that. So I think there's some good there. I think the medical field, do you feel this is gonna go really off a tangent, but you know, we talk about life expectancy
Health, Longevity, And Modern Tradeoffs
SPEAKER_01biblically? I know it's hard, but like 400, 500, 600 years. I guess the first question is is do you actually believe we were looking at the same calendar year and that they were living a life expectancy that was three, four, five times what we live? And if so, you know, what they used to eat back then, the simple in the grounds, like the food we eat is so when Monsano got involved and they started the genetic modified seeds, and everything we eat is a basically a modification. I know there's our organic stuff now, but before all the processed stuff and all the sugars and everyone ate natural things, do you think life expectancy was longer? Like when did it go down? Or do you think it was just life expectancy is more plateaued? I don't think, yeah, I don't know. I mean, you're talking really probably just the first part of the Old Testament. I mean, I'm reading Genesis right now, and we're, you know, we're I'm I'm 20 chapters in, and life expectancy right after Abraham and Sarah is really starting to get down into more things. So that that's tough to say. Um, for the for the vast majority since then of human history, 40 years old was more of, I would say, a life expectancy, and it's continued to increase. Uh and then it's kind of plateaued. I think it did drop a little bit in the last decade or two. I think the real challenge with that is um there's so many variables.
SPEAKER_00Well, as soon as as food quality declined, medical quality increased. Yeah. So you're solving for these really awful medical conditions that were killing people when they were six.
SPEAKER_01You know, somebody gets typhoid fever or whatever. Or heck, mortality. I mean, a lot of people didn't live past the first year. I mean, we're tired of 50% for a long, long, long, long, long time. Not and people did live into their 70s and and 80s and things, but yeah, it it's uh it's interesting because there are so many variables because you get you get you you pick 10 people and they're gonna all point out different things. I was talking to uh Julie the other day, Alex's uh wife, and and she was talking about the chemicals in the air, like the when they chemtrails. Chemtrails. Uh the there's sugars, there's processed foods, chemtrails, uh uh Wi-Fi and like internet type stuff. There's, I mean, just just infinite number of variables that can all or none be attributed to different sort of things. Uh, even talk about like some of the Alzheimer's and dementia stuff and some of the medications, gut health medications. Uh, what was the thing a few years ago? The that the kids get the autism autism vaccines. Like there are probably two dozen things that have probably been more rampant in the last 50 to 100 years that could be potential carcinogens or contributing to other major diseases in ways we just it's really hard to isolate.
SPEAKER_00Well, then it goes back to what we were discussing earlier. I think in in that breath, those are the same, it's the same, it's the same premise around what's the driver. Am I, am I, you know, am I talking about X in a particular light because it gets me more clicks on YouTube or because I'm selling a product that solves the problem? Um, you know, you saw that with like electrolytes. Everybody got in the electrolyte game and all of a sudden people are putting out things that, you know, pack repent, just putting salt in a stick and saying, oh, here it's $5. And oh, by the way, we're, you know, all significantly um short on electrolytes when in all reality most people eat way more salt than they would ever need to replace and aren't doing near the levels of activity that they would need to do to replenish their electrolytes, but you have, you know, so I think like it boils back down to that. And I think that, you know, you're talking about a bunch of things, and I don't think there's any massive meta-analyses, whatever. Um, but you're talking about a bunch of 0.1%, right?
SPEAKER_01Or 0.5%, and they all add up at the end of the day, but you can get really part of the problem is the human body is so resilient and so adaptive that it disguises a lot of the bullshit. Like it is able to figure out how to adapt and evolve, and it like takes on a lot of those toxins and finds ways to get rid of them, and particularly in certain lineages and heritages or whatever, like that that makes it even more difficult because it is so good at that.
SPEAKER_00It is. And and you know, I mean, that's how they treat a lot of severe allergies, is exposure therapy.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_00Right? It's like, oh, you have this severe allergy, we're gonna introduce this a little bit at a time until your body builds up a tolerance for it. Um, and so it's like, yeah, you're right. It's it's the body is super resilient and it's very interesting. I mean, you know, you look at a Brian Johnson who is Mr. I'm gonna live for a million years, and I think we maybe we talked about it a while back, but the fact that he has like an issue now. He's doing everything, measuring everything, conscious of everything, every little bit of what he puts in his body, constantly getting his levels checked, even having competitions with friends on He's got an autoimmune disease, doesn't he? Yeah, and like he's a part of a community that, like, oh hey, this biomarker, you know, I have the biomarker of a 32-year-old, and you're a 33-year-old, I'm better than you are. Like, that's their whole existence, and he's got you know an autoimmune disease.
SPEAKER_01Interesting. It is I think it's uh, I mean, I'll bring us back
Challenges To Try And Closing
SPEAKER_01a little bit. Um I think it just brings questions to how we live our life. Um I think individually uh we all have a way that we live our life that's probably very different than a lot of other people. I mean, this is kind of one perspective of some of the things that maybe hit home with us about what we're doing and how we're doing it. But I'm sure there's a variety of other perspectives out there that would be fascinating to understand. When you guys are ready for a challenge, let's uh let's do it.
SPEAKER_00I'm I'm in. I don't care.
SPEAKER_01It'd be interesting to to uh when you say challenge, it'll be our homework. Yeah, I mean we'll myth it with it in some capacity. Let's like take a uh one of our vacations and go and live on an Amish property. I I can tell you there was some someone was telling me um about a place in Montana um that they went and there's no Wi-Fi, there's no internet, there's no nothing. And let's go live on the land for a week and see what happens.
SPEAKER_00No, let's take a couple acres and let's build four tiny homes or five tiny homes and just you know I'll be there tomorrow. Jared started a garden recently. We're growing some cucumbers and some tomatoes, some jalapenos, but whatever. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, there's a desire there to maybe shift a little bit and try some other stuff out. It's compelling. I don't know if the grass will actually be greener, but it certainly is compelling and interesting and fun to think about. Yep. All right. Well, there you have it. Um we are wired. I think that's something Todd said for uh progress and growth and desire and more. There's something about even buying something new and waiting for it to come in, like the new pixel comes out in a few weeks and just thinking about it. Um, I haven't. That's that's exciting. So I know there's a lot of desires there, but um, several cultures and individuals I think have found ways to do it differently. And we're not sure it's better, but um, definitely worth a good discussion. So hopefully you guys enjoyed this uh episode and uh we look forward to seeing you next time. Thanks.