The Dailey Edge Podcast
Join hosts Trent, TJ, and Todd Dailey as they explore the intersections of technology, culture, fitness, and personal growth. Through engaging discussions and personal anecdotes, the trio dives into topics ranging from childhood gaming nostalgia and cutting-edge fitness tech to the pursuit of happiness and lifestyle choices. Whether reminiscing about epic gaming marathons, sharing tips for staying on the forefront of fitness trends, or unraveling the complexities of modern life, The Dailey Edge delivers thoughtful insights, lively debates, and relatable stories for listeners of all walks of life.
The Dailey Edge Podcast
Episode 57: The 180-Day School Year Question
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
School starts in late July for some families, early August for others, and it sparks a question that sounds simple but gets complicated fast: do kids really need a 180-day school year? We pick apart where the modern school calendar came from, why it became the default, and why it can feel disconnected from how families actually live today, especially when summer disappears before it even starts to feel like summer.
From there, we get into the trade-offs people don’t always say out loud. Sure, academics matter, but school also provides structure, daily rhythm, and a built-in place for kids to learn social skills through shared experience. When school is out, many parents feel the squeeze immediately: work schedules get crushed, the “tablet mode” temptation creeps in, and the lack of routine can turn an eight-week break into chaos. We also explore whether older students can get some of those same developmental benefits through jobs, sports, work-study, and apprenticeship-style pathways that connect learning to real application.
We zoom out to what’s changing right now, including Indiana’s new diploma pathways and the shift toward banning phones at school, plus the bigger wave coming for everyone: AI in education. If information can be delivered faster and more personally than ever, what should school optimize for next: problem solving, creativity, discipline, relationships, or something else? Listen through and then weigh in with us. If you enjoyed the conversation, subscribe, share it with a parent or teacher, and leave a review so more people can find the show.
Back To School Too Early
SPEAKER_01Welcome back to the Daily Edge. We took a little hiatus uh summer break as summers get super busy for all of us. Excited to be back. Got a new topic today. Um, it's right around the time where we're going back to school. And uh for those of you that aren't uh from Indiana, I believe the length of the school year is pretty um, I know there's some federal guidelines, but I believe state by state, um there are some different variations. I talked to somebody that was from Minnesota and they start the week after Labor Day. Uh here in the great state of Indiana, we have a hundred and eighty-day mandatory school year. Our kids are getting ready to go back to school. Mine start August 5th and 6th. And then start tomorrow. Your kids start tomorrow. Yes. Like July.
SPEAKER_00Tomorrow morning.
SPEAKER_01What it's unbelievable. This will air a little bit after that, but July 30th. Now, you guys are on a little bit different of a school. You're kind of a block thing. Anyways, we're gonna spend today talking about um the school, the school system, the amount of time the kids are in school. We're gonna have different opinions and variations. We'll probably use all of our AI friends to help us with research throughout this, but I gotta say, being someone that likes to spend time at the lake and play golf in the summer and spend time with the kids, going back to school uh the first week of August is uh seems a little ridiculous. So um I'd love to know, and I don't know if either of you, if you just looked it up, I'd love to know when the school, like, okay, the school year started and like how long was it and when did they push it to 180 days? Because I don't feel like we went to school that long when we were growing up. I don't have the answer all of it. I'd be curious to know the source of it. So certainly uh there's a frustration uh for you there. What what is your thought? Just you like a kind of a longer summer? Um yeah, I I think for me it's like I think kids, I think there was a point in time where probably majority of people were undereducated. I don't know if you guys feel that. Like when was it Thomas Jefferson that's like there's gonna be a school in every township? Wasn't that his big thing where people didn't not everyone could read or write, or that was more of a I don't want to say uh a fallacy, but like majority of the population didn't have some of that, some of those skill sets. So he's like, I'm putting a school in every township to educate everybody and education and education to get the basic skills necessary to do the things you need to do. Now we're in an environment and universe where people have basic educ education for the most part, at least where we're at and in the area, um, at least in the United States. So to me, it's like do we really need to be in school 180 days a year from an educational standpoint? And moving forward, I feel like with AI and some of the technical things that are going to be swallowed up, there is social skills, there's other things that people can be learning outside of school. So I feel like we have down days all the time. We have, you know, the first three or four days before this break or that break or the last week of school. There's probably two weeks in there already that are just kind of fillers. Um, I think we can get what we need to accomplish in probably 150 days. I would push to move to a five-month schedule, but that's just me.
SPEAKER_00There's my question.
How 180 Days Became Standard
SPEAKER_00So I did I did a little bit of research just for context as we move through this conversation. Um, so it looks like you know, we're talking a 19th century, right? So a while ago, uh, the school calendar was in rural areas based around planting and harvest. So about a hundred-day school year, but it conversely in urban areas is like 200 to 240 days. So they were basically in school all the time. And then mid-20th century is kind of when it went to the 180 days, kind of the nine-month approach. And nowadays, across states, that's pretty consistent. There are a couple of states that let districts choose. And it's kind of funny you mentioned Minnesota. They have the least number of school days of anywhere in the country that doesn't let districts choose. They're at 165. Um, but there are there have been, from what I'm seeing, over 900 schools um across districts, heavily concentrated out west, it looks like. Um, Colorado, New Mexico, Oregon, Idaho, Oklahoma, they're going to four-day school weeks, um, similar to those four-day work weeks. So that's, I think they're for context. And, you know, for me, it's always been, I've always looked at school a little bit differently because I took a different path than the both of you. For me, school was all about social development. I mean, we don't have to go back down the rabbit hole of my lack of academic performance, but um it was for for me, I look back on that as an extremely vital time in my life, especially when I got to high school. Um, being around so few kids my age and being around, you know, we've we've had the discussion in my eighth grade class, there were 12 people. And I had been around those 12 people since we were elementary. So in elementary. So it was basically like going to school with your family. Um, and it was a lot of those same dynamics, right? Like some days you're in the in-crowd, some days you're not, versus larger schools where you can find your people and you have those people. So um, you know, I don't necessarily agree with you academically to a point. I'm sure Todd's got a maybe a different opinion there, that there are things that can be supplemented similarly to the four-day work week. You know, we have the ability to deliver information in a uh more succinct fashion, get it to people a little bit more quickly. But conversely, for me, I don't see you talk about learning social skills. I don't see another opportunity outside of potentially sports to build the social skill, the social skills that are relevant to that age group. Meaning that like I think there's something to be said about working your way through the dynamics of social skills, dealing with sixth graders, dealing with eighth graders, dealing with freshmen. Like you're gonna, you're gonna, I think there's a dynamic there that you learn dealing with different people at different levels that builds upon itself as you go through adulthood. And I think skipping that and not being in an environment where you're surrounded by potentially hundreds of kids your age could be interesting. And I and I we've talked before. I've seen it go really well for a handful of people, and I've seen it go not well for a handful of people. So it may be You're talking about homeschooling. We're talking about two or three weeks of No, I mean you said like two or three weeks of summer, whatever. Like I start to see um dynamics change the longer the kids are out of school. You know, because we have that really short break. So as we get towards the tail end of that, I see a there's there seems to be like a mental shift, like they're getting a little bit more whiny, and and I I think maybe that, and I'm sorry for ranting so long, going so long, but I think maybe that is um related to the synergy that that that's there around parents' work schedules in school, right?
Social Growth Versus Academic Time
SPEAKER_00So like I think a lot of parents utilize that school year to be able to go, you know, to be able to to work essentially and hold a full-time job. And and without that, you know, the kids are um in today's society kind of forced into like tablet mode.
SPEAKER_01You're talking a little bit about because your guys' schedule, so you have like you get two weeks for don't you have like two weeks for fall break and two weeks for spring break. Tell us a little bit, because you guys have an extremely short summer because of that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. It's like seven, eight weeks. Um, I think we got out either the very end of May or the very first week of June, and we're back the last week of July. Um, so I think it's about eight weeks. And, you know, it it's a double-edged sword, right? Double-edged meaning that, like, yeah, it would be there are there are benefits, I think, to um having a longer summer and getting to do a little bit more stuff, maybe do this, that, and the other thing. But there's also, like, for me, I work from home and it gets extremely overwhelming. Um, I mean, today's a great example for me. And and I think this is like we've talked a lot about screen time and things like that in the past, right? And we, I think, all try to be pretty present parents and not utilize that to watch our kids. Um, but today is a great example where my whole day fell completely apart. Um, I didn't deliver like I should have on a lot of my responsibilities because I was carting my kids around because their mom was working today and they weren't in school. And so for me, over time, you know, you start to you we all have a conscience, and I start, it starts to build as I, you know, shirk responsibilities to manage them during the week. And so a lot of times that results in, hey, go sit on your phone or go, hey, sit on your tablet. And then their behavior, as we've talked about, devolves over an eight-month or an eight-week summer into like chaos because we've had to do that more than we'd like.
SPEAKER_01Is your concern days or hours or both? Meaning like it's at at uh our school, the kids go 170 days, but they're seven-hour days. Fine. Or like if it's like is or you know, hours. It's days that's more of a concern. You would rather them see go longer days for shorter number of days. Yeah, and I'm just not certain they need 180 days of education. And I think we have a tendency to talk about, and uh you guys especially, when we talk about these scenarios, we look at it through our lens of the age of our kids. So take that. Would you say that your opinion changes any different for your over 14-year-old crowd that works, that goes and picks up part-time jobs and learns some of those social skills, whether they're at Starbucks or wherever doing retail, does that shift the way you look at that at all? I feel like high schools have. Don't a lot of them have learning programs where they are working three hours a day, so that counts as school? Yeah, I think our school allows seniors to do it, they don't allow juniors, they don't allow sophomores. But if you're 14 in the state of Indiana, you can go apply for a job. You can work a certain amount of hours a week. So a lot of kids, I know, like, for example, in Marion, the splash house is a big deal, and all the kids want to go be lifeguards, and they have 40 lifeguards, and that's the fun they have, and they're doing it in a different context, but they're getting jobs and they're doing different types of social activities. We all have younger kids, so we're talking about, you know, you got to be parent-involved to do this and do that. I don't know if that's always the case. Um so go back to kind of your premise here. Uh you're you were saying it's unnecessary. And I think there's some truth to that because I think most homeschool people that I talk to say their curriculums true, you know, genuinely they could get through in three hours or so if they needed to. So you could argue that the you know, the school day is there's lunches, there's recesses, there's pee, that sort of stuff is is kind of doubled. I think for a lot of reasons. Some of it, I do believe, is probably around parents' schedules and their ability to hold a job. What would you like to see them? Is it jobs? Is it being able to spend more time leisurely? Like, where do you think that time would be better spent? And if the schools weren't in session, how many for periods of time, how many kids would engage in that particular alternative? I would like just families in general to have more time in the summer, to have longer summers to do more things. Um, so I guess you could say that's leisure, but there's also other activities depending on. I guess a lot of it puts the pressure back on the family, the family unit to provide that level of whether it's intentionality or it's fun or it's gatherings, whatever that, or it's the tra or it's travel, that it would kind of fall back on the parent to use that time as they see fit. I I don't I I don't I'm not sitting here like, oh, we should we should give them a week of boot camp or a week of this or a week of that. I I don't really have a specific. I just feel like that we're going to school longer and we are. It's only five days longer. It was in 1987, it went from 175 to 180. Um I think could we accomplish what we knew need to from an educational standpoint in a shorter window. What I think I hear both you saying is probably, but is that still a good thing because there's other things happening? I think that's the kind of the feedback I'm getting from you guys. I think my question, yeah, is like for what? Like for leisure, I'm more purpose-oriented, so I would say like the last thing I want is kids laying around doing nothing uh longer. I would say, uh, could there be a better use of that time? Because I I mean I love the work and school program that you mentioned. I think seniors maybe around here can do. I think that makes a ton of sense. I think, you know, when I when I look at the school year, I think kids do get burnt out at certain times and they struggle to stay focused for that long, you know, those several hours a day uh for weeks and weeks in a row. So I think there might be an opportunity to have some more breaks in there. Um, I do enjoy the summer, but I wouldn't necessarily say now we're in a little bit of a unique situation because we've got a two working, you know, uh different in that. Uh Jenna and I both have have jobs that kind of have us locked up from 8 30 to 5. Um and uh so the idea of having fewer um school days or shorter school days would would put more pressure there, and that would that would complicate things for us, I would I would say. Well, you said your kids already only go 170 days based on the school they're in, so you're kind of already there. Um it was interesting. I was having this conversation, I was getting my hair cut today, and someone I've never gone to, and I and she's a hairstylist, and I just asked her. We just got talking, and I'm like, you know, going back to school, and you know, um, she's got a five-year-old and she's working until 8 p.m. tonight. Um, and I asked her, you know, because I was thinking the same thing. I said, you know, I think kids going back to school so early. What are what are your thoughts around this? Like you working, you know, not a traditional eight to five job. And she's like, well, my son's dad, you know, he works in Anderson and he works these days. And because I was thinking, you know, does it help dual working families or would they prefer longer summers? And she's like, she's like, actually, I would prefer to have a longer summer. Like, this is how we would stage it. And I was actually surprised by the answer. That's why I'm bringing it up. Not that it validates what what I think, but I it I do think it is somewhat situational. Um, we're obviously super biased because we live at a different house in the summer. So for us, we create meaningful experience after meaningful experience and event after event um that the kids get to be a part of, and we create events for them and their friends and so forth and so on. So there's a lot of extra things that we're able to do. Um, but I know people that go, they have sailboats on Lake Michigan and they want to spend more time up there or they want to do different things uh from a travel standpoint. So do you guys believe from just like structure, social context, like adults work, kids go to school, like the system's built, and that would you say the system works?
Structure, Work Schedules, Screen Time
SPEAKER_01And because I don't know if 1987 was the last time they changed the the bones of the system. Would you say those still stand and ring true today?
SPEAKER_00I would say, and I to I I was been thinking about my initial commentary and like boiling that down and and trying to uncover kind of what message I was trying to convey. And I think that, you know, one of the things we've talked about a lot is structure. And I think the the it's been you know articulated in our conversations that children thrive in structured situations. And so I think my earlier commentary was around like for me, you know, between school and sports, I think those are our best options in terms of providing meaningful structure on all sides of the equation. Societal, society, you know, like like you would say, like parallel, paralleled societal structure for kids. Um, do I think it's perfect? No, but I don't know, I don't see any way out that's that's much better until you hit a particular level of financial well-being. Meaning that like we're not, Tara and or I are not in a position to lose a job, right? So to speak. And so um, you know, I was talking earlier about how towards the end of the summer my kids get difficult. And and now, like thinking about that a little bit after I said it, it it's also because July in specific is the one month where there's no soccer practices. Like most of the sports take the three to four weeks off, and that so that's why there's so much pent-up energy, there's not any structure, everything is fluid and and and flowing. Um, so I don't I don't know of another way around it because I'll tell you, by the end of the summer, I feel so, and this is selfishly insignificant as it relates to being able to follow through on commitments. I'm late on everything. I'm you know pushing this here, pushing this here, pushing this here, um because my number one priority is my kids. If I had a little bit more of a flexible uh lifestyle where I could afford to um you know push off more MTC stuff, push off more more day-to-day stuff, then I think I'd feel a little bit differently. But honestly, I'm pretty stoked for tomorrow because I'll, you know, I won't have a completely fractured week.
SPEAKER_01This brings back, I mean, I think you talked about the the s the half school day and the the the curriculum. I think the the implicit uh assumption there is that educations are predominantly there to educate the kids. Right? Like it's purely conveying information that they're going to use throughout their academic career that may or may not in some capacity feed into would would you guys what would you guys say the the goals of school is beyond education? So they're obviously filling a six and a half hour workday. Are there other th or a six and a half hour day? Are there other things that you think schools are accomplishing and or are uh helping from a developmental perspective outside of the raw education aspect? I think the clear answers are um social. It's obviously one of them. The question is, is it better than the alternative? Right? Because like if you say physical, spiritual, social, mental, wellness, all those things are important. And I think it goes back to your values and what what you value as a person, um I think they get a component of all of that, right? They got to do things they don't want to, they got discipline, they've got interaction with whoever they have to interact with, whether they're their friend or not their friend, or handling difficult situations. I would say there's a lot of other components in there. Um, but I think some of those can happen in different environments.
SPEAKER_00I think I kind of articulated all that initially. Like that was kind of my statement. Is yeah, I think there's definitely other things, and and I just I just know that again in our family structure, we don't have the resources to provide those other situations. Like I we just don't.
SPEAKER_01But your neighborhood is uh, I mean, your houses are evolving door of kids. Sure. And I would ask you, do you think your kids get more social at school or when they're running around the neighborhood in the summer? Um I've been there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there there are days where there's a lot going on where, you know, Kay, Kay in specific, in the last week, has been spending like five, six hours a day with friends over swimming and doing these things, and Miles will be in and out. So there's there there is definitely some of that. Um again, this is kind of selfish, but it goes back to some of these instances and not all of them. I have to be, if not present, at least conscious of what's going on. Going on and involved in some capacity. You know, so like yeah, they get they get a good amount of that. Um probably a a little bit more at school because you know there are days where there's a lot of it, there's days where there's not a lot of it. At school, it's every day. Um so so I don't I don't think they don't get it at home. Um I just don't like I don't know, man. I have had a lot of people.
SPEAKER_01For you, it sounds like you like them back in school because it gives you time to do the things you need to do. That's what I'm hearing. More than anything.
SPEAKER_00More than I mean, uh, you know, it it just, you know, I we're the the middle state I'm in, my last week, just to divulge, uh Miles was in soccer camp last week at Butler, which is which is an hour and a half round trip because they're working on 31. So I get up, I leave to take him to camp at 7:30, I get home at nine, Kay is running twice a week because it's off season, right? She's got practice at 10. So I go home, I pick her up, practice at 10. We get home at 11:30, it's 11:30 and I've done nothing. Nothing at all. Right? And then, you know, if Tara's not home yet, then I've got to leave to get Miles. Practice is over at 3, so I have to leave at 2.10. So I've got from 11:30 to 2.10, throw a shower and lunch in there. I've got about an hour and a half. And then I go pick him up at 3, and then I come home, and then Kennedy's got cheer where she has to leave at 4:30 because Tara's not getting home from work until 5:30. So take it to Kennedy Digital Cheer. She's picked up at 7. So all of a sudden, I'm doing all of my work between 12 and 220 and from like 7 to 11:30 at night. And of course, I'm trying to answer emails, but you guys know how that feels when I mean I told, I think both of you I had to turn FSD back on in my Tesla because I'm having to work in the car so much, like dictating emails and taking phone calls and doing all of these things. Um, and that was the entire week last week and this week, as we as we've discussed in terms of the summer being so busy, I was 10 minutes late today because of dynamics very similar to that. Um so I will say that beating a dead horse selfishly, I do like the uh freedom it gives. Now, if that was different and we had the four-day school day and it was just a weekend, I'm all in on that, right? Like versus the longer, the short, like taking the long breaks that are already long and making them longer. If we took those days and there was four-day school days and everybody got an extra, then that's more digestible for for somebody in my hours.
SPEAKER_01Which would take it almost to like 151 days.
SPEAKER_00Which is which, I mean, I don't think the pull, I don't think the problem is academics. I think we have so many different ways that we can we can provide that information um uh in a manner that's more efficient than it has been in the past. And I think that you know, we can supplement social with, like you said, in my neighborhood, having a Friday where the kids are free to roam, they'll get that same on that Friday that they would have probably gotten at school, or at least a semblance of that. But um so so I guess let me clarify extending the already eight-week break for for us would be just complete chaos. But so I do agree with the premise that you know 150 to 160 whatever days done the right way um could could work.
SPEAKER_01I thought this might be interesting. I
Global School Hours And Efficiency
SPEAKER_01just thought, okay, what are people doing globally? That's what I looked up to. The US is sixth out of 42 countries, so among the most hours, although shorter on the days, uh the OAC, the average year spreads typically across 190 days as opposed to 180. So we actually already go when you're comparing globally, we compare or we have a little uh fewer days and but longer days. Um it did point out that there are a couple, uh Japan, Korea, Finland, fewer compulsory hours than the US, um, but outperform it from a testing perspective. So certainly there's um well it's because you count hours, and like you mentioned, like there's five hours of what's called downtime a day, um, but those are counted as hours at school where you could be more effective. So my guess is some of those other STEM countries that are really better at test scoring are just more effective. Uh except for China. China and Julia has told us this. Um Julia is our um point of contact in China for the E-ternize project. Uh they found Chinese students studying about 57 hours per week against an OEC to average of four. They don't have a choice. So yeah. It's cultural. And the return per hour is still poor. So there is a, I mean, I'm sure there is a threshold of hours to output that could be optimized, but that's how I would approach the problem. Is what what do we want to accomplish with that time? What's a better use of that time, and how could we do that? To me, I want more time to screw around, is a horrible reason to abandon the system.
Memories, Purpose, And Relationships
SPEAKER_01Just depends what you call screwing around. Like, I I think here's an example. I consider making memories in that, yeah, which I think this is where we'll completely debate and and I could what are memories good for? Let's just have a fun debate. Okay, what are memory? What the hell are memories good for? Memories are building relationships, and relationships are everything. Without making memories with people and just going around doing everything for purpose and not being a part of something, you get disconnected. Making memories and building is building relationships is more important than anything else in my life. That is a large jump from making memories is is making relationships. But that's what that is. Like you talk about like, okay, that presumes that unless you're making memories, meaning you're basically when I hear memories, I think you're doing leisure things that are enjoyable and convenient, and this is great. Desires of the flesh. Okay. We call them desires of the flesh. We're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna sit there, we're gonna eat what we want, we're gonna listen to what we want, we're gonna, we're gonna relax, and we're gonna make memories. Okay. There are dozens of ways to build relationships that don't have to center around leisure activity. Because I build relationships all the time in discussions, and I would say you build stronger relationships when you're accomplishing something with someone together. The strongest relationships, when you look at like even fraternities, fraternity bonds at colleges are some of the strongest bonds that last well beyond the collegiate years. Let's talk about fraternities. Fraternities, and and some of that, I would say all the purpose-driven activities that you guys did. Well, I would say it's going through something together difficult. Like if it's like making a let's go with the kids to the Spartan camp where we're like gonna in, you know, discipline and like push through stuff, like the bond that you have with your fraternity brothers is about the borderline hell that you go through together. And that is a lot of meaningless, though. It's all in the scheme of things. I'm not saying you can't do stuff together, but you're doing drinking things together, you're doing a lot of I don't think that's where the bonds are formed, though, because there's a lot of people you drink with at college, but you don't, those aren't the bonds that last. The bonds that last are the people that you do meaningful things with and accomplish things. So I have breakfasts and lunches with people all the time centered around like trying to accomplish something, improve something, make something better, and those relationships are formed and bonds that are are built. The whole, this whole like pure memory thing. And so that's the leap I'm not with you on that making memories is the only way to build relationships, and that's predominantly what you're doing. You're taking the statement making memories and saying all that is leisure fluff, like making memories is so like, okay, Alec came to the lake, you came to the lake, that was all leisure, so that's not important, shouldn't invite you next year. I mean, that's like the stuff we're talking about, 4th of July. You got 30, 40 people all together making memories. Your kids are gonna grow up remembering going out on the jet skis and flying across the lake and doing those different things. Oliver on the tube, like those are making memories, and if those aren't important, then I've I'm completely missing the boat. The balance for me, I do think there's a balance, there's like a mental wellness balance for me. I also have memories of getting thrown off the jet ski at 12 years old that I still don't enjoy water. My my point in that is do I see value in spending time away from a screen and unwinding? Yes. Is there a threshold and a balance there where like, okay, we've done like that's there? And in fact, I'm actually now starting to go the other way where I'm having because I've you know so so much leisure, I'm having trouble even focusing and accomplishing things. Yeah, I think it's absolutely a balance, but I think the value is in getting to a healthy state mental balance. Do I think my kids in 30 years are gonna be advantaged and they're going to uh be in a better position in life because they rode jet skis at 12 or 10 or 8 than uh not necessarily. Do it, does it give me additional opportunities to bond with them? Sure. Like for me, that's more it, like getting Noah to try something that he was scared of and didn't want, and then he breaks through that and tries that. But I see that as like a that's a productive like uh life experience that he and I got to go through together. So I think there is hidden gems in some of the leisure activities if you look for it, but I don't know that in and of itself, someone having a memory of being on a boat or tubing or a memory of a concert or this sort of thing, in and of itself holds value. To me, it's a layer deeper, and I do think they are sprinkled in more. Like, talk me off a ledge. But I I disagree, but I'm curious to where TJ comes in on this.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I guess it just depends how you again, I think we're wordsmithing a little bit on this, but I'd be curious because that's well, I think it's a I think there's merit to every everything that has been brought up, but I I think that um I I like you know, I I think doing whatever it is with someone else gives you reference points for stronger relationships in the future. Humans are for whatever reason, I I thought about this a lot lately. We are so, I don't even know the word I'm looking for. Um it's a it's a very simple word, but we love to look, we love to look back historically at things, right? We always reflect. We love to reflect. There's another term I'm looking for. Nostalgia. Yes. Humans are so nostalgic, and we love to look back at those things and having, no matter what the experience is, if it's tough or if it's not tough, that strengthens relationships. The more experiences you have in general strengthens relationships. I think the other cool thing is um providing opportunities for others, what whatever that may be, um, in this instance, you know, we'll use the lakes, sets a great example for the young kids as to how to be uh conscientious, conscientious, how to give and of yourself for others. Um and, you know, I think we as parents collectively make sure that our kids recognize that, you know, I think all of us, every time our kid gets any opportunity that's provided them from someone else, whether that be a friend, uncle, whoever, we say thank you. Like, you know, you have to, I think we're the only for me where it would get lost is if it becomes expected. And, you know, so I I see the benefits of experiences in building relationships, and I do agree that relationships are extraordinarily important in navigating life. Um, but I also, if my kids were going and doing something and were at a point in life where it was expected, I would yank them out of there so fast. Um but if if they're present enough to recognize what they're getting to do, and that guides them to pay it forward in the future when they have the opportunity to do so, then I I see extreme value there.
SPEAKER_01I think I'm here's where I agree and disagree. I'm obsessed with creating environments to help people build relationships. And my hope is that when our kids get older, they're gonna be like, oh, you remember, you know, like we do with Alec. Like, do you remember each summer we'd always come up to the lake and we do this? And for Christmas, we'd spend three days together. And whether it was chasing foolish packs and doing push-ups or sure, you know, miles with the 10-minute, you know, plank, like the kids don't get a lot of opportunity for the cousins to build a relationship to where when they get older, they'll have a tight-knit relationship like we do with some of our cousins. So creating and fostering those things all summer is what I'm passionate about. Having people up that never get to do those things and they get to have a day of rest and relaxation, where I'll agree with you at, and what I found out is potentially living at the lake is not a very healthy thing all the time. Um, and giving your kids a lot of leisure time is not super healthy. So I'll agree with you, like, if it's the person's complete and utter life where they wake up with like, what's my meaning today? That's not good. But I'm still not gonna go back on the fact that creating memories and being a part of something strengthens relationships. And I agree it can be done through meetings as well as it could be done through leisure.
SPEAKER_00So um Well we need we need people that do that, right? And and I this is gonna be a stretch from where we started this podcast, but I think the way society is going, that's going to be the play. Relationships are gonna be everything. Well, they're gonna be everything, but I mean there are gonna be people that have been successful, they're gonna have to facilitate a lot of what's happening. Like, you know, like I mean, and and there's tiers to that, right? Whether it's, you know, uh, I think we are pretty self-aware that we're all on on a particular side of of the pendulum, if you will. So, like the things you provide for people, and or or you know, there there are different levels of um struggle that people go through. And, you know, we're dealing with, and we can talk about this in a later podcast, we just launched a uh partnership with New Shoe Day and learning that there are 250,000 kids across the state of Indiana that don't have shoes. So, like where you're taking kids that have never been to the lakes before and they get to go out there and do all these cool things and it makes a huge impact on them. There are also kids that, like, you know, somebody who's making $60,000 or $70,000 a year and supporting a family is bare and is kind of budgeted and is getting by, they could help somebody out by donating five $25 for a pair of shoes. So it's the same thing. Um, but but what I meant by my earlier comment is I think is as we continue to see uh the great divide happening, um yeah, I I am all for and uh all behind people that are able to um share their success and uh give people experiences um because I do think that creates an environment where people in the future will pay it forward no matter what their capabilities are.
SPEAKER_01Talk about the the because uh what's interesting here is the underlying the kind of hidden value proposition. You talk about relationships being built that may not otherwise be built. Like to me, that's where there's maybe some unique value here because you know, I again I can tell you when I look at my relationships, like I've got great relationships with the guys at Track Tuesday. We get up at 5:15 in the morning, we say the rosary, we run. It's not exactly an enjoyable thing necessarily, but there's relationships, deep, deep relationships being formed. Now, we have a forum for that. Where I would agree with you on is yeah, the cousins uh don't get together very often. And so there could be a point in their life where family relationships are some of the few relationships that they have, and if that relationship wasn't um uh wasn't fostered or uh nurtured, yes, over time, that that relationship doesn't exist or it's not strong enough to persist when everybody goes their separate ways. So that if that is kind of the value proposition, then I think that's a whole new angle and a whole new lens on things. I think that's a hundred percent. I it's really interesting as people come and go in your life. I think as you as your kids get in different things, different people come and go in your life. But like this summer, we went on a trip to Europe and got to spend quality time with people that we hadn't spent a lot of quality time with and came back a lot better friends. Um, and now we're hanging out a lot more. And we've had other friends that have, you know, um chosen to do different sports and they were not around at all this summer. And it's kind of like, hey, I haven't seen you in forever, you know, like and so which is again fine. Like we all make those choices to to do different things, but um I think growing up in the relationships that I've built um over the years, they've been mostly socially. Um doesn't mean we haven't accomplished stuff together. I did the fraternity thing, but you know, I wish we could phone a friend and get James' opinion, you know, on this. But um the intentionality to create meaningful experiences, to allow people to build bonds. Like my daughter's soccer team was just up there, their high school soccer team. They spent two days this week at Huntington Soccer Camp where they only did like three hours of soccer a day because they want to build a family, because a team is a family that plays better in the bonds that they built and they came to the lake, and I reassured them that, like, guys, the only you're gonna win and lose, and it's gonna be great, but the relationships you're building now are the lifetime friendships. And you know, we had four people that had never been on a tube before, that you know, we had some crazy experiences and some bunch of laughter and smiles. And um, man, that just brings me joy to see that. And I don't know how impactful that's gonna be, and if that's gonna be something that they look at and say, wow, that was amazing. But they're trying to foster a team, they're trying to build a family, and that's done through going to soccer camps that are more maybe structured and meaningful around the sport, but playing games, they had to do like some presentations and dance-offs and things or going to the lake. So I think you can get there in a lot of ways, but allowing people an opportunity to build a relationship, and I think it's really hard to do as adults get older because there's not a lot of commonality. We've talked about this unless like we get together and run. But outside of that, like, what do adults do? Like, let's get together and have a beer. Well, none of us drink, you know. So, um, I'm not sure how in the heck we got here from school. Well, I think relationships are there's no question about it, and they're becoming more and more important, and relationships are critical. I know the introverted side of me struggles to uh say that out loud, but relationships are absolutely um a game changer. Uh, I think probably the disposition, and and James that you mentioned, phone a friend, his disposition is enjoy the journey. And I think there's some fruit in that because I think happiness breeds a mindset that is um is fruitful and bears fruit in a lot of different ways. And so I think there's something to that, but I think when enjoyment becomes the end instead of the means, that's where I'm like, I think we're missing the mark. I agree with you on that one. Yeah, I can align with that. That's 100% true.
SPEAKER_00I think it ties it all back together. The original question, one of the original, I guess, you know, paths we took off this conversation was um, you know, the benefits of being in school. And I think shared experience together develops these relationships and builds these teams going through a difficult class together, having a difficult teacher together. I think if we talk about, you know, some of the, some of the, I mean, obviously, relationships are built off shared experience. That's all of it, right? And so, but I think if we look back at a lot of the relationships that we've had, you know, the text threads that we're on with our friends from 30 years ago or from high school, uh, there still are probably more often than not, you know, we'll refer to uh either a shared experience or a shared like that we had, you know, whether that's a music artist or a movie we watched back in the day. Um, and so I think there's a secondary benefit of a little bit more school is going through like the commiserating. I mean, I'm seeing my kids again, they're going back to school last week of July. I mean, today, this morning, we had a couple of kids. We were carpooling down to cross country, and they were like, I hate school. You know, like it was commiserating together. And I think there's, you know, um sh that's gonna be foundational as as it relates to their relationships
New Diplomas And Phone Bans
SPEAKER_00going forward.
SPEAKER_01So um they hate school together.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_01I mean, like, but there's there's are you guys aware of the new Indiana, like it's great, the new school system and the lineup and the how they're doing it. New diplomas. The new diplomas. Well, one of the things I was look I was looking up. We just scheduled Hadley today, so I got to really sink my teeth into it. Um, but there's a new diploma, it's not the core 40 anymore. There's basically three paths it's college prep, employment, and military. Those are the three preps, and then there's like now there's six seals. So there's these seals that you get for, you know, you can go the honors college, the honors honors plus. You can get so the way it's set up is that you'll have 30 college credit hours done if you go through the honors plus as part of the core program, not even including the AP classes you can take on that. So you'll have your freshman year done. Um, and that's kind of built into it. So one of the interesting things about a lot of the European countries is at the junior high level, they're dividing them like that more into employment, more into and starting to teach. So that's one of the differences. We talked about the days in length, but they're moving them into different areas a little sooner than we are. But it's really interesting to see um how the school system and then the other thing that Indiana state law passed is no cell phones, period. Yeah, cell phones, earbuds, headsphones, like like you can't bring it in the school. Now, our counselor said you can put it in their locker, but like confiscation of phones is because like Roman would be like, hey, we got bored in our class and we all got out and we played, you know, clash of clans together. Like, nope.
SPEAKER_00It's it's different. Ours is, you know, ours is the same, same rule, but my kids are very different in that regard. Like Kennedy will bring your phone to school like once a week. She won't obviously now. Until they get older. Like when they get older, it becomes well, it's that it's that level for Kay. Like she's she does doesn't leave her side. But um, yeah, it'll be interesting. I mean, I I'm not mad at it. I don't, you know, I think I think some of the the I don't want to get too off on a tangent, but like I think some of the fears that some of the parents have about wanting to know where their kid are 24, like that's completely unfounded. Yeah. Um I'm not too worried about that. That's ridiculous.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that that's insane. So I guess my question to you guys in closing would be if you could make one or two major changes to the system that's evolved over the
Four Day Weeks And Better Pathways
SPEAKER_01last hundred and fifty years, what changes would you make and why? That would would build upon where we're at. What do you think is in excess? What do you think is underemphasized? And how would you change the system to lean into that? Well, uh yeah, I don't mind going first. I think a couple of things that have stuck with me, the four-day school week would be an interesting one because it would be nice to see sports being played on Friday, Saturday, and not Sunday. Um, I think the church day's been lost and it's really frustrating to have to have Sunday. And, you know, we got a game in Zionsville and it's a seven-hour day, and you're just smoked. So I think that would be interesting of how if you had a four-day school day, how some of the sports could be broken up a little differently if you had a longer weekend. I really like that approach. I still think I would appreciate a longer summer or just because of what we like to do and the entertainment things that we do. I understand we're probably unique in that, but um, I would take if you could give it, you know, I'd take a week off and put us back maybe mid mid-August, and then I would, you know, maybe it's maybe it's two Fridays off a month. I don't know what it is, but I I would do something along those lines. Um, I would also be open to longer days, uh, you know, 170 days, but going a little bit longer would be fine too.
SPEAKER_00I the changes I'd want to make, I don't know if they would take, you know, because I like where things are going with dividing people, if you will. I I wish it would be, I wish it was more um, you know, I mean, you said there's three paths, you know, maybe a little bit more diversified and a few more paths where because I think a lot of what we deal with is, you know, you you see these kids gravitate towards particular subjects offline from school because of the way they're presented. And they're being presented by individuals that have a wonderful ability to communicate um or produce content or whatever that is. And I think that uh, you know, all the teachers, if you get into that, you're good intention to begin with, but I think there's a lot of burnout in that space, you know, it and we can we've talked about, and this has been topic of conversation since teachers probably came to pass where they're un they're undercompensated, and so I think at times um you know you get burned out and you give up in the fight, and you're not you're not able to present, um you're not able to keep focus from the kids and present things in a way that it's uh enticing. So the reason I say all that is is because for me, it's like, well, if you divide a kids up a little bit more specifically into these areas where they're more interested, could you have a little bit larger class, 50 to 100 kids, get a little bit better or compensate teachers a little bit more so that we could dynamically deliver because this information, right? Because you know, I think you've said this about Roman, like half these teachers' jobs, and yes, it's gonna be like this, the little younger kids are, is just babysitting, just trying to keep them focused for a few minutes and at a time because so many of them are distracted because they're in these environments where they're not focused because it's just not interesting. And I don't think that's not me saying that, oh God, everything has to be specifically tailored and 100% the most interesting topic ever. Um, but I I think there's potentially, from a change perspective, a way to get kids on the right path a little bit earlier and expand class sizes and improve teachers' abilities to deliver the information a little bit more effectively.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I would say I think building an application sooner uh so people have an idea of why they're learning what they're learning. I think the problem is the kids don't have any sort of why. They're they're there because they have to be there, and that's kind of it. Nobody's there because they see a value proposition. Some of that is just their brain's not there and they're not thinking about that in that capacity at that age. But I think we could do a whole lot better. I mean, you think about I would I would press to say if there are four hours of pure educational content being delivered, I would be surprised if a kid's holding on to more than 10% of that. Just because it's basically being forced down their throat and there's not a lot of application of it, and or technology's gonna do a lot of it, or for whatever reason, I don't think they're engaged in digesting information. You think about the amount of information we can consume when we're actually interested in a topic, it's unbelievable. It's it's 10x. I think if you get a kid that's really interested in a topic in two hours, they could probably consume two weeks worth of you know what someone might learn on it. So I think figuring out how to build in application so people can find areas of interest sooner. I do think the apprenticeship model that they do overseas is brilliant. And I think there's a lot to that because earlier people can identify the passions and start to curate their craft. Um, but but I would like to see that and and kids having more of an understanding why they're learning because that I think that will exponentially uh take more advantage of the time that's being spent. The one thing we didn't talk about is just what they're learning. And I think what you just said is like by the time something can get through and get approved to be taught, it's gonna be irrelevant to some extent. Like, what are we learning? Do we have to memorize? Do we have to know ELA format writing papers and you know, with this knowing how to like what's that called where you had to like know how to like put all your references in place and do all those things, yeah, MLA formatting like is that relevant anymore? Is it we don't have to memorize the quadratic formula, although we most of us probably still know it. Like, what what are the things that can be valuable? Because I think that's where you start to gain attention when we do the IMG internship week. Most of the time we've got people engaged in the content um of what they're even talking about. And so that to me, being able to keep the system updated, even colleges are gonna struggle with that.
SPEAKER_00I think they try they're trying. You see some of it, you see they're trying. I was talking to a teacher Wednesday, we went on a run, and he was like, you know, I'm we were talking about like I don't know when it became a requirement, but a personal finance class, right? Like adding some of these things in, but but because of the bureaucracy, that most of it's half steps, right? You know, they tried to implement the math, the new math approach a while back. And and there was terrible, by the way.
SPEAKER_01All the kids made it harder.
SPEAKER_00It was, but like when you listen to the reason that they did it, it was so when you're in situations where, you know, when we do metal, when when most humans do mental math, they're breaking, you know, if they're doing like a complex multiplication, a lot of times they're breaking it down to smaller numbers and then adding those smaller numbers together. So they tried to look at how we do things and they tried to teach how we do things, and it became overly complex, but they were attempting to like, hey, I know as an adult, when I'm in the store and I'm trying to figure out a cost of something, or when I'm here and I'm trying to figure out this math problem and I'm doing 76 times whatever, I'm doing 70 times four first, then I'm doing six times four, and then I'm adding them up, right? And getting to 306 a lot faster than I would if I was doing it another way. Sure. And so you I think they're trying, um, but man, I don't envy you.
SPEAKER_01It's tough. The system, um, any big governmental system is really hard to have any type of major reform just because when you cover such a wide variety, I don't know how many kids there are in the Indiana school system, but like you said, there's 70,000 kids even without shoes. So, like you're trying to solve a problem for a vast group of people with very, very different environments and upbringings, and it's just complex.
AI, Core Skills, And A Homeschool Pivot
SPEAKER_01It's just tough to do. It's gonna be really hard. I think you someone mentioned colleges, you mentioned colleges, they're gonna have their hands full, I think, in the coming decade. And I think AI is is really going to challenge their value proposition substantially. I mean, I think a lot's gonna come down to relationships, and you're gonna have to. I think the one underlying skill that is important, and whether that gets built by a quadratic equation or something else in language arts or whatever is problem solving is a massive one. And creativity and innovation are also gonna be probably even more important um in this world because I I I think AI struggles a little bit more on that side of things versus STEM, but I think those are I I really the only way out of it is to look at those core skills that we're trying to build. Is it problem solving, creativity, discipline, innovation, whatever, and and then work backwards? And I just the system's gonna move way too slow. The good news is everybody's gonna be in the same boat. So outside of probably some outliers who are homeschooled or whatever that you know are gonna be able to be counted on hands and toes, uh, you know, they'll be maybe wildly successful. And then, you know, everyone else is gonna be playing catch up. To that point, um, we did decide to put Isaiah back in school for a lot of reasons we said today that was a really tough decision, and we had a few days of tears behind that, but um, it was a lot for Angel, who did a lot of the education component, and it was really hard. But we ran into a second grade teacher who was at golf camp that Isaiah went to, and I had come to pick him up, and she came over and she said, because Isaiah had come over and she said, Is that your son? I was like, Yeah. She goes, I gotta tell you, he is the just nicest young gentleman. He came up to me and just said, introduced himself and said, So, do you live on the lake? I mean, he's eight, right? But he even knows how to ask questions. And she was like, I teach second grade, and I don't have a student that could talk to, you know, that can articulate and build rapport like that. And it was like reassuring that he you can develop those skills elsewhere and probably develop them even better when you're now that's not a question you'd ask an eight-year-old, like, hey, do you live on the lake? But his ability to relate, um, I think there were some really big benefits from doing that. But um, socially and being around friends and the f the friend group for us is super important. So St. Paul. Uh yeah, he'll be going back to St. Paul, he'll be in third grade, and we're able to have a lot of his buddies up for a day at the lake to build the relationship back. So we had three or four of his friends up, and we want to reintroduce them and play together, and so um, he's not tickled about it. Uh, it'd be great if we did have a four-day week, and then he could spend some time still going with us, but for now it is what it is. Four-day week would be interesting. Yeah, the idea of Fridays and Saturdays and then Sundays being a rest day. That'd be compelling. Rest day. Do we even have a rest day?
unknownNo. No, we could talk about that.
SPEAKER_01Not anymore. Well, uh, that was a big swath.
Final Takeaways And Closing
SPEAKER_01School and and everything else, and everything in between. Um, hope you guys enjoyed it, and we look forward to seeing you next time. Thanks.