The Dailey Edge Podcast
Join hosts Trent, TJ, and Todd Dailey as they explore the intersections of technology, culture, fitness, and personal growth. Through engaging discussions and personal anecdotes, the trio dives into topics ranging from childhood gaming nostalgia and cutting-edge fitness tech to the pursuit of happiness and lifestyle choices. Whether reminiscing about epic gaming marathons, sharing tips for staying on the forefront of fitness trends, or unraveling the complexities of modern life, The Dailey Edge delivers thoughtful insights, lively debates, and relatable stories for listeners of all walks of life.
The Dailey Edge Podcast
Episode 34: Masculinity, Fulfillment, And The Cost Of Comfort
Comfort is easy. Fulfillment is earned. We dive into masculinity, marriage, and meaning at a time when progress is simulated on screens and purpose feels optional. From the thrill of video game “wins” to the quiet ache of not feeling needed, we unpack why so many men are restless, how shifting roles at home can erode gratitude, and what it takes to rebuild identity on service instead of status.
We talk honestly about gender equality’s gains and its unintended side effects: invisible work getting discounted, blurred lanes that turn into scorekeeping, and a culture that glorifies what photographs well while ignoring what truly sustains families. We explore male mental health through the lens of usefulness, and why AI and automation will intensify the crisis of purpose unless we choose meaningful burdens. Marriage sits in the crossfire—distorted by social feeds, porn, and “bro” hustle narratives that set impossible expectations for intimacy, money, and success.
Our answer isn’t a return to rigid scripts; it’s a return to clear roles, shared standards, and the pursuit of excellence. We lay out practical ways to raise resilient kids: create controlled risk, prioritize adventure, and lean on sports or craft to turn drive into discipline. The outdoors matters because it won’t bend to our settings; it teaches limits, grit, and humility. And for couples, we challenge you to talk more with each other than with your algorithm—align on values, then protect them together.
If you’re ready to trade dopamine hits for durable meaning, hit play. Subscribe, share this with a friend who needs it, and leave a review with the one practice you’ll use to build fulfillment this week.
Welcome to the Daily Edge, where we bring you the latest insights, opinions, and thought-provoking conversations to give you that competitive edge in life, business, and beyond. Let's go. Welcome back to The Daily Edge here with TJ and Todd, my brothers. Um, and this morning we are going to talk about masculinity. Uh, I think that can mean a lot of different things, but I feel like we're in a society where some of the God-given primal path instincts that we are born with are not being exercised as much as they were they probably were back in the day. I think there's a lot of things at play in our in our current culture. Um there's a lot of things we're doing, and I'll kind of just jump in with uh, you know, an example. I believe that that men um like to pursue, they like to pursue progress. They like to um they want to feel needed, they want to feel useful. And these are things that uh prior to screens, technology, video games, that you know, that testosterone you have when you're uh, you know, and you're probably teens, your early teens, mid-teens, late teens, is pushing you. It's pushing you to do things, to put yourself out there, to take risks, um, which eventually would probably find you a mate, which would then, you know, start to calm you back down and balance you out a little bit. It feels like some of the things that we have created is creating an easy button for that. For example, video games being one that you can sit down and I can feel progress, I can join a community online, I can do these different things, which in some sense is curbing that, um, which you could argue is is a good thing for uh you know society as a whole, because it's probably not as violent because men are kind of being tamed a little bit. But what are your guys' thoughts on this?
SPEAKER_01:I've got quite a few thoughts. I've had a lot of time to think about this over the last couple of years, just digesting a bunch of different content around it. And I think that, you know, what we're we're doing is, you know, we we look at there's a couple of different approaches. Let me put it this way. There's a couple of different approaches when it comes to uh increasing your capabilities within a certain discipline. And by that I mean, you know, when you're pursuing excellence in something, there are the two paths are typically focus on what you're good at and optimize that and continue to get better at the thing you're already good at, and or work on your weaknesses. And I think as it relates to masculinity, that's kind of fallen out of balance. We've obviously evolved in a particular manner. And I think from even pre-testosterone, even pre-puberty, you're seeing uh things change a little bit. You know, if you if you rewind a couple of different generations, kids were in the fields at five or six years old, right? And they were, they were, you know, you see kids nowadays, our kids, everybody lives in, not everybody, right? But but society as as a whole spends a lot of time indoors, lives inside a lot, and boys, and I think I think we're going back in the right direction, but for a period of time, there was a massive effort to kind of quell that boy energy. And if you if you have had boys and girls, you can see the decided difference. You know, by the time they're probably eight to ten months old, you can see the difference in um for the most part, right? The difference in the way that they interact with the world. And so I think that's what's what's happened over time is instead of being able to be outside, and this kind of speaks to what you're talking about with video games, be outside and be getting that energy out and doing those different things, whether it's working when you're really young or playing, um, I think that definitely pushes down those natural instincts, natural feelings. And it can it can create a unique dichotomy, meaning that at some point you have to deal with that. Um, how you deal with that, meaning that kind of sowing your royal oats, if you will, like kind of getting getting out there and uh figuring out how to manage masculinity. I think that at some point you have to do that. So um again, I think, you know, from a societal perspective, we've definitely pushed down those natural tendencies from a from a male perspective. That's too wild, that's too aggressive, that's too much. And it does, I think it does leave the man uh as as they get older kind of confused and wondering, okay, where do I go with this? What do I do? These things are bad, these things that I feel naturally are bad, um I need to take another path, and I think that that puts you know that that's why we potentially have the situation with kind of struggle with mental illness right now.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think uh when you start to mess with something that's been deeply instilled over the course of evolution of tens of thousands of years, um I think you do start to it it becomes treacherous, dangerous territory. I would touch on this a little bit differently. I feel like society doesn't value masculinity like it once did, just in general. And I think some of that has come in the form of gender equality, I think has numbed the value of masculinity. And and my point to share that is not to say that gender equality has been a bad thing, but I think in certain areas maybe that pendulum has swung too far. What I mean by that is there was uh there's been a point, and I I'll speak to this as someone who has a spouse who's incredibly successful professionally. Um she at that's where I met her was at Liberty Mutual Insurance, where we both started out of college. She was a Lily scholar from Notre Dame, uh Lily Scholar that went to Notre Dame. Um, very, very smart and very bright professionally. And uh candidly, that is what um that was a lot of why I was attracted to her. I really um enjoyed that about her and cognitively challenged me. So I say all of this in the context that I I believe society has diminished the role of the mom in the home. And I I think that is such an important role. And I don't I'm not sure where or why that happened, but at some point it there started to get traction that women are better than being you know stuck in the home raising the kids. And I um I think for certain people, what what I what I think was great about that movement, so to speak, is I think there are some people who may not be cut out for that. And and my wife in particular, I think thrives more in the workplace setting. She's got a very logical mind, um, and I think kind of thrives more in that setting than at home. And so I think in certain uh situations, I think it's great that women have the flexibility to pursue what makes sense for them. I think, however, the the way that pendulum has swung, I think you have a lot of moms doing some incredible things at home that aren't feeling valued and supported um just from a societal perspective. I think they're feeling like they're not enough. And I think that's been a been an issue with that movement. And so I see that push for equality um as having really challenged. You talked about the roles of the male and the female, um, and the whole idea of masculinity. It's like, well, no, we're gonna we're gonna kind of pull roles out of this. You know, every this the woman or the man can do anything in the household, and I think it's just gotten a little toxic. What's interesting, uh I think there are observable metrics for success, and then there's internal metrics for success. What I hear you saying is we uh look at those observable, the things you can flex on Instagram. It's the cars, it's the money, it's the job, um, it's the house. And those are the things that I think society says success, um, how you determine success. And so then you have your internal metrics like I'm sleeping well at night, I have a great relationship with my spouse and my kids. You have this internal piece, and those are things that aren't really measured. And what I hear you saying is like those internal metrics, which are very, very important, they don't feel as important. So, like for a woman who's like, I'm just a stay-at-home mom. Like, I mean, I think you hear that all the time. So I have a wife that stays at home, and I think there's a constant challenge with like, well, what am I doing with my life? Like, what what's my what's my purpose? And like your job is way more important than mine. You're like raising these kids and the family, but because society doesn't value that as much, and because those aren't observable, and those are the things that and I think from my guess is from woman to woman, that is even harder when a woman is like, maybe she's in a profession, is like, so what do you do now? And then like, oh well, I just stay home. Correct. And there's this I don't want to say lack of appreciation, because I think everyone knows how important that role is, but as a society, it doesn't seem to be valued as equally, or in a lot of cases, more important. How do I just gonna say there's even sensitive around that terminology? Like there's the sensitivity you have to be very careful how you ask that. And and so, like some of the questions like, Does your wife work outside the home is like a better way to ask versus does your wife work? It's become such a thing that it's there's a ton of sensitivity, even around asking the question, because if you ask the question, does your wife work professionally? It's like again, it's got this like demeaning, I think unnecessarily demeaning uh interpretation.
SPEAKER_01:How do we feel about this? So we know that the we've talked about a lot the main driver with life itself is purpose, right? And that's what keeps you alive, keeps you going, keeps you waking up every day. And you know, we've all seen the studies around what happens when purpose subsides. So, you know, the feminist the feminist movement is what we're talking about when women started to seek jobs outside of the home. You know, and I often wonder there's two sides to that coin as well. Side one is we are all wired to want more, something different, something new, against something that's validating.
SPEAKER_00:Men.
SPEAKER_01:Anybody.
SPEAKER_00:Anybody?
SPEAKER_01:I think anybody. I mean, like, you know, once you get X, you think that Y, because it's more is better. Um, or this different, this different route. So that could have been the initial reason for this. The other piece of the puzzle, and I don't know if this is gonna sound misogynistic or whatever, but if you if you again rewind a couple generations, it wasn't possible for the household to stay afloat if the woman worked. It just wasn't because everything was manually done, right? And all, I mean, you know, we're talking generations back where you're making the clothes, where you're hand washing everything, where, and of course your kids are helping you, and chores are more prevalent and things of that nature, but there's a lot of purpose in that because it's tactical execution on a daily basis. You're seeing day to day to day, hour to hour to hour, all of these things that you're doing to keep the homestead functioning. You're engaged, I'm sure, with the farming and different aspects of that. And then as we become a more technologically advanced society, I can see you get to you get to the point where we're at, and you're a grown woman in 2025, and the laundry takes three minutes to put in the laundry and the dishwasher's there, and a lot of people have help around the house because of the way things have economically shifted up. So, you know, I think there's that element of it too now, is like, man, it's kind of hard to find. We've talked a lot professionally about how hard it is to find self-worth when you stop doing tactical things, when you become an idea person. And so I'm wondering if that's a contr a contributing factor to where we're at today, and um is why we're seeing this kind of continued um push.
SPEAKER_00:I I think that's 100% spot on. I was listening to a webinar on AI yesterday, which is talking about just this, because it's about to get a lot worse. That if you let go of your purpose and your mission and your values in this AI world over the next few decades, you're gonna be in a really bad spot because there's gonna be very little that you actually need to do to survive. Because I agree with you. I think I even find this like even after doing dishes, if I'm like standing at the sink and pots and pans and that sort of thing, like mentally there's a calmness to that, at least for me, because there's an accomplishment, there's an achievement, there's a and we're not only losing that, but I think we're just losing a general purpose more broadly because there's very little that or much less and increasingly less that needs to be done every single day to survive. And so I think that is a huge part of this, and it's gonna get a lot worse. Two stats male suicide, all-time high. Heard a podcast where I think they said it's just as high as like people that die from breast cancer. Like, male suicide is a real thing, it doesn't get talked about a ton, but um it's what are you guys' thoughts around that and just purpose and what do you think is causing that um versus women versus anyone else? Like, what do you guys believe is the main contributor? I have to think that there's something tied to purpose and usefulness, and I'm just wondering with the shift that we've seen with men I think innately desire to be useful, to be a contributor, to add value. And it appears to be harder and harder for that to happen. Because the similar to the things changing within the household have changed in the workplace, right? Like there's a lot of different um work isn't maybe as manual as it used to be in a lot of areas, and um men trying to get ahead to be able to provide that value for their family is harder and harder to be in a tier where they can maybe outperform or outwork in the professional world the women. And so you've got it. I think when a man hits a point where he's like, I don't feel like I'm contributing or I'm doing enough, or I'm letting my family down, or my spouse down, and I'm not like uh that's gotta be very depressing. Yeah, I I mean I think it's everything we've we've just been talking about. I I think yeah, I I don't know that there's a whole lot more to add there. I think, you know, the other thing I would add, just in terms of kind of feeling like you have a purpose, I don't even think it's so much that you know, I mentioned earlier, I think society is starting to say whether male, female, you could and should do the same things to contribute to the household, whether it's working or chores or thing with the kids. And I think that is eroding value on both sides of the relationship. I would say even a better spot would be switched roles. Even you have some stay-at-home dads now, and I think that at least there's some accomplishment, there's some uh there's a role, there's a value proposition you're bringing to the family that even though it's not the most masculine uh type of thing, I think there can be some positives to come from that because there's some distinct value that you're bringing in this world where it's everyone should be doing the same things and the husbands should be, you know, there's there's kind of a uh a criticism of husbands not doing enough of the changing of the diapers and and all those sorts of things uh because everybody should be doing everything. And uh living in a household that is kind of more on that wavelength, I do think um there is something that's missed from distinct roles uh in the household. I think that's something that obviously was in place for many, many, many centuries, and that's the danger. And I'll I'll uh I'll try not to bring this back to religion, but that's one of the things that I love about the Catholic Church is that they're very, very true to that tradition and they don't they don't waver with societal perspectives that come in and out. And I think that's the danger of this something that's been in place and worked extremely well for millennia, and we get this idea over the course of a few decades that we think we're gonna do it differently and it's gonna be way better. That I think there is a um a lack of thoughtfulness sometimes that goes into the fact that that has been that has worked so well for so long. Why are we uh why are we trying to force change upon that? And and I've already alluded to some of the reasons why I think good things have come of this. I'm not saying this is this has all been bad, but I think we are in some dangerous territory because people are starting to lose their purpose and they're starting to lose their lives. How do you I do want to talk about marriage because I I obviously marriage today versus 50 years ago is completely different. Roles are different, expectations are different, divorce rates different, and maybe there was just as many miserable people and that just didn't divorce back then because it just wasn't as accepted to your point. Yeah. Do you believe the current I don't know, part of me just thinks the lack of masculinity in men and women looking for that or women looking for different roles to do different things. I'm just wondering how much of that do you think plays into um the way marriage has transpired and where we are today.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think that women seek out excellence. I think you learn that in dating, right? Is that and I think that's any partner, you know, men tend to you you know, for men, excellence tends to be appearance off the jump and then kind of snowballs from there, but um be desireless, be excellent, be gone. The dial of Steve. But that that's the thing, right? Is there's this this um pursuit of excellence, and I think in today's society there's less of that. There's a lot of jack of all trades, masters of none. There's a lot of a lot of it is fleeting. I think you know some of these big changes that we're talking about um weren't there wasn't the foundation there to make a shift like that, you know, 50, 60, 70 years ago, it was much more difficult to separate the family, I think, just from a from a workload perspective. Um, let alone, you know, but today we have the technology where it's painful, but it's doable. It has definitely become more common. I think it's what one in two, it might be over 50% now, um, in terms of of that particular rate. But I think it also rate. Yeah, but I think it also speaks to just this uh you kind of talked about social media, you know, this idea that the Disney princess life is out there. And I'm not saying that as it relates to women, you could say the Disney Prince life as well as it relates to men, but we're completely um overrun with the social media flexes. And uh, you know, we talked, we've talked about getting down that hole and getting deep down that hole and thinking that there's more down there, and you know, the more you have, the better it's gonna be. Instead of looking how, again, you know, I bring this back to the same thing. Like he brings it back to religion, I bring it back to recognizing that you, you know, it's really about your contribution to the future of humanity and recognizing, okay, this is what I can do to best serve that, versus if I don't get more money, I'm not worth anything. If I don't do this, I'm not worth anything. And I think you look potentially at family structures over the last, we'll even say 50 years, where now we are seeing, again, we I think we've talked a lot about the the divide. We are seeing more, like you you've talked ad nauseum about how difficult it is to work with the GC, like to get a general contract. So we're definitely seeing like this divide where um there for a moment in time the the trades were I wouldn't say they they were they were less um valued from a societal perspective, they were still extremely valuable. You need all of these things to uh you know establish a home and and can keep or continue to keep it running, but um yeah, I I'm interested kind of your guys' thoughts as it relates to some of those statements.
SPEAKER_00:I would say there's a couple for me that I think to answer your question, Trent, how has the recent tone on masculinity impacted marriages? Um two things. One when you don't do something every day, or if you do something very often, it's it's often a much more intimidating task. So if you don't ever do the laundry, the idea of doing the laundry is becomes especially the more distant you get to it, it becomes very intimidating, very overwhelming, very arduous. Like, I don't want anything to do with that. And if someone's doing that for you, the appreciation goes up substantially. Short term. Short term. I'm I think for me, I think it's you value someone doing laundry the same now as you did six months ago, nine months ago. I think I think to your point, I guess you can normalize. I mean, there's a there's a natural thing to to you know lose gratitude for that sort of thing. But I think even the thought, I think there are persistent thoughts of having to do your own laundry that creep in there and and help that gratitude to persist. My point in that is as women and men have started to both do very similar things around the household, I think the appreciation for each other has dropped. I think when you have everybody trying to do everything, then you get into counting, well, who's doing more of what, and you have more tension and you have a lack of appreciation for each other. I think it's very, very uh straightforward what's happening there. And I think that's impacting the joy in a lot of people's lives. I think the other thing that we talked about that is not helping isn't necessarily directly related to um masculinity, is we have the time to wonder. Uh, we have the to the there's the free time and the discretionary time, I think, to think about those sorts of things. How happy am I in my marriage? Could I be happier, you know, in another situation? And a T TJ just kind of talked about it. There was a point in time where there was so much work to be done in the household to keep things moving and going that there wasn't a lot of time to entertain those sorts of things. We didn't live in a society. I mean, certainly I think some of the things that were also pointed out, yes, I think while there is still a stigma with divorce, I think it was probably it's gotten better over time. Um, it was worse 50, 60, 100 years ago. Um, that was looked down upon uh very substantially from both sides. So those are a couple of things that jump out to me that I think are are not helping the situation.
SPEAKER_01:I want to jump back on that um because I think I kind of lost my train of thought, but back to kind of this happiness thing. And we talked about this months and months and months ago. Um, I think you had made a comment to Trent about pursuit of happiness or whatever. And I think that I think that's a fool's errand, meaning that like Tara and I were talking the other night, and we were talking about things. She's like, you're never happy. And I'm like, in the traditional sense, I'm like, that's not my purpose. I'm fulfilled. Like, I don't uh personally, like I'm not pulled in, and it's taken years, I think, to get there. I would say that when we were out in Seattle, it was completely the opposite. We thought there was a way to buy ourselves into happiness or whatever it was. Um, but you know, we've gotten to the point, I think well, most of us are on the same page where none of it really matters, right? I'm here to fulfill, to be fulfilled, and fulfillment comes from providing for my kids and my wife and my friends and family and being there, and that's where it comes from. So, you know, if I were somebody, especially again with social media, that that believed that pursuit of happiness was the right vacation at the right time with the right people, at the right hotel, with the right, you know, sustenance, right? I got all this amazing food and whatever, I could see really quickly how as a spouse you would start to, you know, I think from a from a human perspective, naturally you start to point fingers and you start to build resentment towards people because you're not achieving what you think this this ultimate happiness is. And and so I think that you know, my explanation to her was I'm just as happy as I've ever been, but but it's through this other lens. And that's what for me I think keeps our marriage in a good place from my perspective. Obviously, that's not hers, is that you know, as long as I'm able to do those things, and that kind of goes back to what you were talking about, Trent, about being needed. Um, but at the same time, you know, I try to focus on seeking out where those gaps are so that I can fill them. Um, but but I do I I can imagine, you know, with all the Instagram models out there and everything else that you see, that there is, like you said, time to wonder and think about well, what could be when you have kind of carnal desires as your uh perception of what happiness really is.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think that's a great point. I mentioned kind of wondering, and I think social media has also made it much more palatable for you to envision yourself in other situations that I think has also been very problematic.
SPEAKER_01:And if you don't date a lot, um, and if you're not exposed socially a lot, you know, I think we were blessed in a sense that you know we we got to do those types of things because of the the culture at the time we grew up, where, you know, uh by the time I met my wife, I knew exactly what I wanted and what I didn't want. And I'd been, you know, I'd engaged through my uh employment at the time with with hundreds, if not thousands, of people and learned about different types of personalities. So a lot of that time that you would wonder if, and I'm not, again, I shouldn't say this, like you know, if you married your high school sweetheart in 1965 and you stayed in your hometown, you probably met everybody, and I'm just this is you know, but you probably met everybody that could be um tempting to you as you grew up. If you were in a smaller farm, you probably knew everybody, and you weren't constantly exposed to. I mean, if even if you think about this is kind of getting down the path, when you think about when we were kids, access to scantily clad women porn for a lack of was not easy. Um now it is right there, and so it's this compounding effect that you're able to keep yourself through things like video games, through things like online communities, more insulated against social engagement outside of traditional school. So you have that lack of exposure versus what and you've you've heard this about kids today, men, you know, younger men today. Their exposure to women is porn, their exposure to women are these things, and that is what they think it's supposed to be. That's what they think it's like, and that's where a lot of that depression comes in. They have their first experience after watching that, and it's decidedly different. And then all of a sudden, you feel like a failure because you didn't perform to the perception that you've had about what this is supposed to be. And you hear all of these stories and you hear discussions and podcasts, and you watch videos that paint these particular pictures, and you don't know where the person on the podcast is in their life. They could be in their 50s and talking about their relationships, and then all of a sudden, again, your only exposure to what relationships should be like is this 50 year old talking about a relationship they've been working on for 20 years, and you start to feel insignificant. So I think that's an interesting scenario that we're in.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, there's a couple of things you guys said that. The purpose statement and when we all realize that we're, I think we all at some point in time were trading the present for the future, right? We were, oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this now so that in the future that I'm gonna have something better, I'm gonna be on the better vacation. When we start to realize that serving is um really more of uh an internal metric that we should be valuing. When when we look at husband and and wife, why do we think because over time I think with social media people started to um or I want to say just people, it's easy to start looking at those things on social media, like, oh, this person did this, this is what success is, and we start to put a focus there versus the appreciation for I've got a good family, I've got a husband or wife that works hard or takes care of the family. There's this like there's this family model. I don't care whether it's the man working or the female working outside, both are working, both are contributing to the family. And now all of a sudden we're looking at, we've changed our focus to it feels like keeping up with the Joneses. It's the house, it's the cars, it's the it's the next thing. I'll be happier if I was in a bigger house, I'll be happier with, and we go and we pursue these things because we are never satisfied because we like to progress, but we don't, I think a lot of times we miss because we don't progress in the things that matter most.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:We progress in the things that the world says are is the most important thing or the things that are in front of us. And there's this, you know, the psychology around marketing and needing more and wanting more and having the the next thing is super powerful and super and then you take that into the kids and you talk about these addictions. I feel like our kids are not getting fully developed, our especially our men, because they're not having to take the risks and put themselves out there like maybe we had to back in the day because of some of the things that have been developed. Um, and I'm wondering as they get older, how this next generation marriage will look if it's a big thing, or people like is it still going to be something that or are we gonna see the the the tide change? And maybe marriage is going to be something that is um, you know, people I don't know. I'm I'm just yeah, a couple things. I I I wonder if any of the decrease in ability to achieve and be valued around the home is compounding some of the desires to accumulate material things. I wonder if that there is in a sense of cry for help there of that is what people have to chase because of their inability to get that fulfillment elsewhere. I'm I'm curious if that's at play. Um I do think things will cycle back. I I think people are finding that the promise and allure of, I think what was probably born in the 70s, this idea of freedom of kind of doing whatever you want, whenever you want, whoever you want, however you want, I think is um continuing to fade. That promise of like, you know, get out of that marriage or get out of this, not to say that there aren't marriages that are toxic that that people do need to get out of, but I think society as a whole does encourage people to pursue happiness as opposed to fulfillment. And I think that's a huge challenge, and I think people will find that that is fleeting. And I think people will come back to uh my my take on this people come back to true the pursuit of fulfillment, and that I think is where true joy lies. I think people search for the happiness in the material things as opposed to, and we just had this conversation the other day a little bit um professionally, and I was having a very similar conversation to what uh TJ you mentioned, you having with Tara, that I don't happiness and like like fun is not my purpose. My purpose is to leave this world better off than I found it to the extent that my gifts and talents will will allow. And if I have an opportunity to make that progress and have that impact, that's where my my true fulfillment's gonna come from. Yeah, and that conversation we're happening having one of the things that um was clear to me is that for different people, especially at different ages, that's vastly different. Right? Um I think as you get older, the tendency is to become less self-focused and more other focused as you start to see the end come. Um I believe we go through different experiences. Like in my life, it's I was on the pursuit of more, and and arguably I still am to some extent, but not like I was, because I I found that there's no end to that funnel, and that once you get to a certain spot in that funnel, it doesn't matter. Um, and so as I've experienced that, it it's it's challenged me to um look at where I spend my time and the things I'm spending my time on. And I find that I love the work and the purpose I get from work and the problems to solve, and I love to grow, and I I just I get excited um in that realm, but I also am in a really fun time with my family, and I find tons of excitement leaning into what they're doing and serving them, and so then there's this balance of like I like to serve the people at the office or office is, and then I like to serve other community leaders that I'm partners with, and then I like to serve my kids, so I think there's a lot of different areas to do those things, and depending on where you are in your life, I don't think it all has to be professionally. Yeah, I I would agree with that 100%. I wanted to bring this back to masculinity a little bit and some of the societal impacts, and I know you guys don't have multiple boys in close ages, but society has continued to get in gotten softer and safer over time. Um where the risks that people would allow their young boys in particular to make 50, even 30, 40, 50, 60 years ago uh are much more than what there is an appetite for today.
SPEAKER_01:Irrational fear.
SPEAKER_00:Irrational fear, and I think some of that comes from our access to information out there, 100%. And you get people that say, oh, you know, so-and-so did this, died doing this, and that may be one out of a million, but you plant that in someone's head, and then someone starts to control the situation. I know, and this just for me, having boys around the house, they like to wrestle. And I know Jenna in particular gets a lot of anxiety around that because there is so much fear that's been implanted societally, in my perspective, and even naturally, I have some instincts there that have been uh planted from society. I try to fight those to the best of my ability because I know what's the worst thing that's gonna happen with him wrestling, right? But that ability to that to get that energy out, to lean into that energy, explore that energy. We were just talking with Anthony the other day about him. He was so glad that his parents had the house that they did because he could go out back and shoot BB guns and set things on fire. And now his son's trying to do that in the middle of Denver, Colorado, and it's not quite as acceptable. And so I think that's another thing that kids are kind of told and trained at a young age that that masculine energy uh to roughhouse or whatever, I think it's tamed much earlier on than what we've already discussed today. At least I'm seeing that and doing my best to fight it, uh, but it's certainly not encouraged.
SPEAKER_01:I think it it's funny that kind of dovetails into the whole social media thing, right? Because what you're presented is you're presented this, these idyllic families, the the kids that they do a certain thing, they act a certain way, they behave a certain way, and then instead of recognizing, like you said, instead of recognizing the areas of growth that they need to experience to become contributing masculine members to society, we kind of push those down because we we think those reflect poorly on the way that people perceive us, right? I need to present this family in a particular way. People aren't gonna understand. It's like we've seen this all the time. This reminds me of this. How many times you see a parent in an airport or talk to a parent in an airport who's flying for the first time and they're absolutely terrified? They're like, oh my gosh, my cut, my son or daughter is going to what and I've got all I've got, I've got uh, you know, snack bags for everybody in my row because my and and the the reality of it is no one cares, especially, I mean, there there will be those handful of people that have not experienced it, but any parent on that flight, which is probably a large percentage, they don't care. And I think similarly with the boys, um, you know, luckily we're in an environment where we do have a we have I have a young boy, but he's surrounded in our neighborhood by boys. So there is a lot of wrestling, and there's a lot of, we'll let him uh, when he was six, ride his bike to his friend's house in the neighborhood. And and and a lot of parents wouldn't do that. They'd want to like, you know, and we've at times let him do it without without a GPS device, God forbid, but that creates a sense of confidence that that that fosters that sense of exploration. And you know, for me, I I hope to your point that we continue, I think we'll do it at different societal levels. You know, I think that the top 1%, if you will, will transition back first because they have the uh benefit of being able to focus on things like increasing, you know, uh a child's sense of self-worth and then it will society will follow.
SPEAKER_00:But um the uh it maybe be fun to talk about adventure, like creating adventure for boys. I know that um there is the helicopter parenting that can come into play and just sitting there and being able to let, especially in boys, like my boys drive four-wheelers, they you know, we boat and tube and like trying to expose them. We love to downhill ski, like those are all kind of thrill things, right? Like those are things that kind of push the edge and you know, going through the phase of taking people, taking hundreds of people tubing, right? And there's the phase, right? There's the freak out, I don't want to go outside the wake phase, and every kid starts there, and then they're like, oh, take me to the, you know, then throw a little peer pressure and their friends, take me to the right, you know, or then swing me out to the left, you know, and then it's always funny now because when you naturally when you have a tube and you got some new and some old, there's always one person that's too cool for school, you know, you're not going fast enough, they're just sitting there like, you know, just being so, but that comes through that exposure. And so as we as we do train our not train, but expose our kids to different things, how do you how do you make sure you're doing enough of that? You're creating enough adventure in their lives.
SPEAKER_01:We still do that, right? As adults, we talk about the hard thing we do every year, you know, and I think that's so important to do. And we've talked about doing that actually with our kids.
SPEAKER_00:I was gonna say we need to plan that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think I think putting it on the edge. Like the more you get the closer you can get to the edge. Now we're not talking about I think we all watched the video uh the other day of the guy who hiked up and skied down Everest. Oh my gosh. That might be a little too far to the edge. I was nervous just watching it, just unbelievable. But like that's what you know, that's where Todd and I were talking, I think the other day about, you know, we're we're starting to plan next year's event, and I had talked to somebody about something for us. And one of the events we'd put out there had the potential to be kind of a two-day hike, which would be cool from an experience standpoint, but I think we we've actually all talked about it. We would probably leave that like wanting just a little more of that, you know, pushing up against what's possible. And I think doing that for kids um doesn't exist much anymore. I would love to take the kids out to the Appalachian Trail for a weekend and like let them see how far they can push themselves. Let's go hike the Grand Canyon, whatever, right? But like you know, I see too many kids nowadays, and it's unfortunate. And I think some of my kids, maybe uh one or two of them, kind of showcase these behaviors, but there's just the the level of anxiety is paralyzing, and it's it's and it's it probably did start at that young age with the boys like look, you can't do this, you can't rough house, okay, you know, don't do this too, and and and then all of a sudden you're 15 years old, and everything that you felt primally is wrong, and so anytime any of those feelings you know uh rise up inside when you're in a competition, no, those are wrong. I don't want that energy, I don't want that, that scares me, go away. And um, I think that's something that you need to learn to embrace and um appreciate.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I I mean I think the good news with this is it doesn't necessarily always have to be some outdoor masculine thing to making sure we're instilling values and we're channeling that energy in some fashion. I think there are other ways to do it. And so I think that gives us the flexibility to instill these things, the pursuit of excellence, the ability to fight through adversity, the ability to um, you know, have gratitude on a daily basis. I think some of those foundational values we have to find a way to instill. And whether that is doing an outdoor, like, you know, aggressive type activity or it's in other fashions, I think the biggest thing for me is instilling um instilling values that can sustain fulfillment long term.
SPEAKER_01:I say when I say outdoor, I say outdoor because I think in that environment, you're in a situation we're we're in a society where you can't control the uncontrollable. And we're in a society where you can control more and more and more and more of what you know, even in the illusion of control. And you think about you think about the evolution of video games. You know, when we were younger, you played on one difficulty and it was this hard, and you figured it out. And if you died, you started from the beginning or you had a continue, whatever. Now you can microadjust the difficulty throughout, you can, you know, uh turn all of these different things on and off to give you a bigger advantage. But when you're in that outdoor environment, um I think that's the ideal place to do it, honestly.
SPEAKER_00:I think that's ideal, and I think there are ways to if I just for those that don't maybe you know aren't able to do that or facilitate that in you know uh sort of situation. I mean, even in sports, like you're saying, like the pursuit of excellence, challenging them to pursue excellence in the sport that they're doing gives, especially for males, that ability to figure out how to achieve and to know what it takes to achieve so they can achieve in all areas of their life as they get older, which again is that momentum that I think many men have lost um based on some of the societal influences. You have two daughter, two daughters. I have two daughters, you got the all the boys, but you think about the type of men or man you want your daughter to marry, and then you work backwards of like what would it look like to create that? What are the characteristics and traits that they are looking for, that they're going to you know desire as women? Because I feel like what a woman is looking for, um it just isn't as common in men today, and I still think it goes back to what we're chasing, what what we value, the experiences we have, and the sometimes in a lot of cases, lack of development because those things that we used to do. I feel like we're getting old every time like we used to do. We're in our forties and it's like 25 years ago. Um they're not having to live and have those experiences in this world as much. They're doing it in a virtual reality world, they're doing it on a screen, they're maybe not um or the bar has been raised so high because women are so intellectually, you know, further along and there's in success, and they're always looking for a mate that's just a little bit above them, right? Is that is would you agree with that statement or no?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think in certain circumstances, again, depending on the generation and when you grew up and and what you're you know, I think it's funny. I think it's kind of a bell curve. Honestly, you know, once you get past a certain age, you're just looking for whatever you can find. I and I've seen that because we all we have we all have single friends in our 40s that you know um are are dating and see some of that scenario. So I think there's a point in time in your life, again, depending on the generation you're in, that um, you know, let's say if you're probably in your mid-20s now, you've been exposed to, you know, here's the thing, and I was gonna mention this earlier is the majority of exposure that people have to um the the male, the today's male via social media is through people that are pretty narcissistic, right? They're the guys that it's like the the dynamic we've talked about when it comes to the the the squeaky wheel getting the oil, right? The loudest few people on X or the loudest few people on Facebook are the ones that get all the attention. And if you look at social media and you look at the bro space, it's make$10,000 a week and it's it's you know be super jacked, and it's all of these things. And so then, you know, women are exposed to, well, if my man's not making$10,000 a week, he's not the guy. He's not, you know, he's not the the top of the food chain or$20,000 a week or whatever that number is. He doesn't have, you know, a Lamborghini or a McLaren or whatever. He's not the one. And so, you know, they want to, they again, they want to be at the top of this idyllic uh trash heap. And so, yeah, that's what they're pursuing. And then they they continue to, you know, I think there may be an element of it, like you spoke to where they want to have somebody just a little bit better, but I think it's also this grand exposure to um what the top of the top is because you have 10 people out there saying that this is the top, right? You're Andrew Tates of the world, you're yada yada yada. The one thing that um you know, the one thing that I'll say actually, you know what? Um I lost my train of thought.
SPEAKER_00:I think we've just lost we've lost our way a little bit, uh as a species. And I think there's a lot of good that comes with our willingness and ability, I've and I think this is happening all over, not in just the United States, our willingness and ability to challenge the status quo and to not just do things because that's the way they've always been done. I think there's some positive to that. I will also say that when it comes to foundational and fundamental aspects of how we've evolved and how things, I just I think we've gotten away from that. I think we've gotten a little bit of an ego as a society that we know better on fronts that I think we've overstepped our bounds. I thought we, I think we've gotten out over our skis. I'll, you know, one of the most controversial verses in the Bible nowadays is Ephesians 5, 22 through through 24. Wives submit to your own husbands as to the Lord, for the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church. Now, as the church submits to Christ, so also their way their wives should submit in everything to their husbands. Um and then there's this has been kind of pulled out as like this misogynistic uh you know verse that women are less than men. But if you go and you catch the second half of that, it turns around and says, Men love your wives, and goes on. And if you actually dig into that, um and you understand like the depth of the love that that's trying to articulate, there there are just things the the lack of the controversy in my uh in my mind is way overblown. But we live in the society that's like, no, no, no, there's this obsession with equality, and the reality is uh it was it was absolutely designed uh uh in an equal fashion, but I think the what we value as a society has changed, and so we've started to apply our own interpretations to these things that have worked foundationally for so so long. And I did I just think we've lost our way a little bit. I think there's some foundational design for the family, the male, the female, that no one was more important than another. I mean, even in the Catholic Church, that gets a lot of heat for um not having women that are priests, not having women officially in the magisterium. If you actually look like the women, the influence of women from Mary uh to um women throughout, like saints, doctors of the church throughout like their value and their worth. It's it's been incredible the influence and the way they've contributed, even to you know, and I I just think we've lost the appreciation for the original design. And I I hope we can uh yeah.
SPEAKER_01:One thing that I think's made it extraordinarily more difficult is I mean, gosh, we've come back to this about a hundred times in this episode, but is you know, when you're married, it's as one. And you think about the the amount of media we consume today, you know, at times Tara and I have sat there and kind of pondered like, you know, what today do we have in common versus what we had 20 years ago? And think about like, you know, we've talked about uh having conversations with your wife before bed or having conversations with your wife in the morning, but like the way we're operating today, I think generally speaking, most societies is your opinions are consistently you're not discussing it with your spouse like you were forced to just because of lack of other people around. Now your opinions are reinforced by everybody else all the time. And so, you know, it as it relates to the way you're perceiving the world together, that can very quickly part ways. And I think that's something because of again the amount of media. I mean, it's we we've all we've talked about echo chambers and how easy it is to fall into those, and it would be so much more beneficial. And I think that's something I need to work on personally with with my wife is starting to, you know, engage a little bit more and talk through things a little bit more instead of letting uh you know other types of media reinforce our beliefs because I I've found that um it just makes doing life together more difficult when you're you're not having those conversations and developing um a view of whatever scenario it is as one. And then secondly, uh I did gain my train of thought. I wanted to go back to what you said about looking for what you look for in a man that you'd want your daughter to marry. And I think for me, it really boils down to finding somebody whose fulfillment is through providing for her. Period, the end. There's there's really not a whole else. Because at the end of the day, if nothing's promised, right? And if tomorrow there's some type of apocalypse and his whole goal is ensuring that she can continue on as a human, you know, even if it's this Fallout Three type environment where you know we're scrounging for that would be that to me stands the test of time is somebody that that is there. That doesn't mean um all of the traditional it doesn't necessarily mean he has to open doors for her, it doesn't necessarily mean he has to do those type of gentlemanly things. But if at the end of the day the the purpose is I get my fulfillment through providing, um, and I will fit find where those shortcomings are so that I can fill those holes and provide, that's the goal. Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_00:As we look forward, you mentioned Fallout 3 and who knows what's to come in the next 50 or 100 years, but if we fast forward three decades, it's 2050 something. And we're in a world where there's even less to be done, and there's even less opportunities for progress and achievement in a real tangible world because so much of it's either being done by robots or AI. Like, what does that look like? And and how and how does masculinity and femininity like how does that survive in that world? Do you think this is this is gonna be wild, but do you think you will start to see more people try to live I don't want to call it a an ancient life, but like let's take the Amish, right? The Amish right now probably think the same thing about what's going on that what what we're doing. They're like, nope, we're gonna stay on the farm, we're keeping technology out, we're gonna keep the my guess is is they probably have a pretty I don't know anything about the Amish, but marriage, family, service, that that those things they uh they do those probably very well and probably do them much better than we do currently. So as you guys talk, it's like, well, maybe you'll start to see families have family homesteads. You'll start to see different groups of people pop up that are like, no, I'm gonna go out in the country and I'm gonna try to keep things, I'm gonna try to instill different. I don't know if that solves the problem. I don't know if it is gonna give fulfillment, but I just wonder what you guys I think you could see that from like uh as TJ mentioned, there's a a group of people that may have the resources to be reflecting on that and to do that. I think there there is a chance societally that we we get very close to burning ourselves to the ground just as a species, and we're a very resilient bunch, so I don't doubt that we will figure it out ultimately, but I think it's gonna be a really painful process. I think we just can't help ourselves. The dopamine, I mean, you see us, we just go after it like animals, and I just don't see our ability to collectively as a sci society, um, especially in a society where you are there's incentives to capitalize on those deficiencies as a human, right? I mean, corporations are making billions and trillions of dollars based on those uh instincts, and I think they're gonna continue to push them. I think we're gonna push ourselves right over the edge, and we'll we'll see um we'll see what that looks like. But I think it's gonna get worse before it gets better.
SPEAKER_01:I don't disagree. It's gonna be interesting to see. I mean, you we we talked in a prior AI episode about the creativity that's that I think we'll we will apply as a society when it comes to like the professional side of things. And I think, you know, maybe one of the paths forward as it relates to creativity for purpose will be leveraging our strengths as men and women, right? And um trying to trying to get a little bit more primal and recognize, okay, this is what we've evolved for. Maybe it makes sense to pursue these paths. Um, maybe these things, maybe we should start embracing what makes us different. And you hear that a lot, right? Um, but embracing what makes us different and and and drive that all the way down and uh see where that takes us versus what we've done over the last 20 years um trying to see how far we can improve our weaknesses, if you will.
SPEAKER_00:Um, because there are definitive differences and uh do you feel arguably that men and women are happier now than they were? I mean, it's gonna be hard to tell because again, falsely when you think about the way that the house and the the role and what society is saying is important, standing here today do you believe women and men are? As a society, we're happier the way things have evolved, or we were better off the way they were.
SPEAKER_01:I think there's a happy medium. I think the pendulum will always swing too far in one way and come back. I don't think that, and I don't know. I think that again, if we go back to fulfillment, I think people probably felt more fulfilled when it was a family, you know. You go back to uh our great-great-grandfather who was digging ditches in Fairmount, Indiana, you know, and and half the kids, you know, one of the kids ran away because it was such hard work and they were doing it four and five, six years old. Um, I'm sure you felt more fulfilled, like I have a purpose, I'm getting up, I'm doing these things, I'm contributing to, you know, the income of the family, I'm contributing to the uh the growth in preparation of our food through tending the farm or whatever. So I think you felt more fulfilled. I don't think that equates to what we believe is traditional happiness or what has been defined as happiness, which is um being able to relax on the couch in air conditioning and watch something that that triggers dopamine. Um but I don't think necessarily that I don't want to sit here and sound like that's all bad when you find something that you know I get happiness through what do they call it, type A, where, you know, like Dan and I ran 14 miles around Indianapolis on new trails I never run before. That was fun. Um it's not fun in a traditional sense, but for me, there was a dopamine hit when I finished, and and that was really cool. Uh so you know, I think that that there is an element of happiness that needs to be in play here. Um so to kind of answer your question, I would say that there was probably a point in time where we hit that. Maybe it was the 80s, maybe it was the 70s, and then I think now we've kind of gone too far down the path of okay, the majority of people, that's all it is, is the sitting on the couch in air conditioning, watching entertainment that is specifically curated for the things that reinforce our beliefs and that make us happy. I think there's a middle ground there. Um, so I would say there was probably, again, a point in time over the last 50 years where there was this peak combination of both of those things. Um, but I I do not think today that there's any more than there was.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think um you nailed that. I feel like fulfillment for sure, and it all comes back to the definition of happiness. How are we defining this? And I think sure, there are uh infinitely more conveniences and comforts in today's world. And I think depending on how you define happiness, you could say people are happier. Um, and I think there was a point in time where being alive was miserable. I mean, if you you think like relative to the conveniences and things that we have today, and you see a lot of it like people uh had no problem dying for and going through even torture, uh there was there is much more um of an openness to that, which seems barbaric, but I think that spoke to the difficulty of the time. So I would say life is easier, far easier than what it was. I think again, depending on how you define happiness, certainly there's more hits of dopamine, there's more comforts and feelings, but I think they're fleeting feelings and yeah, chemically happier. Yes. Good way to say it. Well, that was a lot.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um obviously there's a lot of complexities in this. We're not experts just uh giving our opinion on our own personal situations, but it does seem like there is an opportunity and even moving forward into the future that we're gonna have some challenges with purpose and fulfillment. Um so as fathers uh and husbands, we have our work cut out for us, but not all hope is lost. We will see you guys next time. Thanks.