The Dailey Edge Podcast
Join hosts Trent, TJ, and Todd Dailey as they explore the intersections of technology, culture, fitness, and personal growth. Through engaging discussions and personal anecdotes, the trio dives into topics ranging from childhood gaming nostalgia and cutting-edge fitness tech to the pursuit of happiness and lifestyle choices. Whether reminiscing about epic gaming marathons, sharing tips for staying on the forefront of fitness trends, or unraveling the complexities of modern life, The Dailey Edge delivers thoughtful insights, lively debates, and relatable stories for listeners of all walks of life.
The Dailey Edge Podcast
Episode 32: Navigating Tough Conversations with Family and Friends Starts With Values, Not Victory
The holidays are coming, and so are the conversations that can turn a cozy dinner into a cold war. We decided to test whether three brothers with different priorities could map a better way: talk politics honestly, disagree clearly, and still pass the pie without resentment. The twist? We treat the real issue as values, not victory—because most arguments aren’t about facts alone, they’re about what we each rank first.
We start with the big lightning rods—Trump’s promises and style, immigration and human dignity, abortion and moral tradeoffs—and show how labels flatten complex people into single votes. From there, we pull back the camera to where polarization actually grows: echo chambers that sell certainty, outrage that spikes anxiety, and media incentives that reward 10-out-of-10 headlines. You’ll hear why calm minds compare debt to GDP instead of doom-scrolling, how two AIs can “prove” opposite points just by changing the prompt, and why faith tied tightly to partisan branding sparks cynicism without changing hearts.
What makes this worth your time is the practical playbook. We share simple moves for holiday peace: set intent before the meal, ask questions that surface values, restate the other person’s point until they agree you got it, and pivot to shared ground when the heat rises. You don’t have to convert your aunt or clap back at your cousin to make the night meaningful. Focus your limited energy where you have influence—family, neighbors, local service—and you’ll leave more grounded than any viral thread could make you.
If this conversation helps you breathe easier heading into the season, follow the show, send it to a friend who needs it, and drop a review with your favorite peace-keeping tip. Your stories might make it into a future episode.
Welcome to the Daily Edge, where we bring you the latest insights, opinions, and thought-provoking conversations to give you that competitive edge in life, business, and beyond. Let's go. Alright, welcome back to the Daily Edge here with my brothers Todd Daly, TJ Daily. Thanksgiving's right around the corner. We're going to be getting together with families. We're going to have some fun today, guys. How to have political debates and differences and get along with your family and not ruin the holidays is going to be the topic of today. We're going to approach some sensitive topics, probably ones that all of you have different opinions on. And uh we're going to give different points of view. We're going to navigate tough conversations and we're going to still love each other at the end of this. So that's going to be the point of it all. I think there are a lot of um polarizing things out there. We've talked about some of the echo chambers and how we have this unbelievable confidence in whatever we maybe believe personally is the right answer, and there's only one answer. Um, but we're gonna get after each other and give each other a hard time. So permission granted to call each other out on um any statement that is made today, and and uh let's let's try to navigate some of these tough ones. Sounds great. Uh my first question for you both is Trump has been in office for how long? The second time? Is this the end of the second year? 2028's the next election, right? So that'll be 29. So maybe he's only been in office for 10 months. Yeah. Yeah, that sounds right. He's been in office for 10 months. Feels like a couple. How do you think he's doing? How's Trump doing? Is he doing well? Is he not doing well? I'll start this off. Um I'm not sure I can gauge well or not well. I think he's doing what he said he was gonna do. Um, one of the things that um I've been trying to follow is he ran on a lot of different things that he was passionate about. And I don't think we always see politicians live or actually do what they say they're gonna do. Now, even while he was running, people will say, I disagree with what he said he was gonna do. Like they're gonna disagree with his policy on um deportation, but he said he was gonna do it. He's doing what he said he was gonna do. I'm not here to comment on whether his policies are right or wrong, but the people that elected him, um, he is, I believe for the most part, outside of one area, which uh the one person that's gonna watch this is gonna know outside of the whole uh Epstein file release, um, he has pretty much followed through on most of what he said he was gonna do. And that's a whole different animal, which we can talk about if you guys want. It's interesting. I'm not um I'm not super close to it, and I intentionally kind of uh stay at a distance from it, but I did read an article the other day that some of the personalities that supported him early on, like a Rogan and some others, were actually saying the opposite, um, that he's not done what he said he was gonna do. Um, so uh it's interesting. So, what were some of the kind of the core things that you remember him running on or that you feel like he has followed through on to some extent? I think it was big on um the deportation and just the the uh the borders. He ran big on the borders, that was a big thing for him. Um, from an economy standpoint, everything, you know, the national debt uh trade. He was running, and so I'm more business. I don't I don't spend a lot of time with politics. That's why this conversation is dangerous for for all of us. But um getting the trade balanced, we've been operating at a deficit financially, losing more and more money, and basically more and more of the countries being owned by China each year. So he's really focused on trade and he's drawing some hard lines, which again haven't made everyone happy, and the Border Patrol, those are the two that kind of stand out to me. How's he doing?
SPEAKER_03:Well, I think you I I kind of saw it I kind of saw what you said, you know, and I and I kind of agree with that, um, that he is doing what he said he was gonna do. Um in in some instances, right? I do think that people are you know, I I find I don't know, I find this kind of interesting. I do think that there's this perception that he's been more of a bully, if you will, and I think that that really strikes people, certain people the wrong way, right? I think that when you reach a particular and and I I don't know what drives this mentality, but I I see it fairly consistently, and I don't know if it's reaching a particular level of success, I don't know if it's a particular geographic location that you live in, but where a person feels like they need to protect another person or that they need to be a voice for another person. And I think that those people um are inflamed by some of the things that he's doing, and then that is causing quite a bit of a rift, uh you know, where it was because prior to him running it was more of a hypothetical, and certain people probably believe that there was no way he would take the hard line that he has and do some of the things that he has done. Um but again, it's like I kind of I kind of take the same perspective that you do where I'm just kind of like I think we said this in political conversations before. And I know I've been called out on social media before by having this attitude, and and you know, I'm signified or whatever is privileged because I'm saying this, but maybe it is, but because I don't I'm not directly affected by a lot of the stuff and it isn't close to home, um I don't stay as close to it as maybe I should. I don't know, but uh but I do think like he is doing what he said he was gonna do. I think there are have been some benefits to things. I at least think that it has started conversations. I think that um we are getting to a point where tensions are were and are so high that the only solution is to start actually talking to people and listening to them. You know, otherwise we end up in I mean, you hear it teased all the time, right? Civil war. Uh so I I think we're we're at least starting to have some of the conversations that have been prompted by some of the things that have happened.
SPEAKER_02:Can I ask you guys a question? Yeah, I feel like some of this, a lot of this boils down to the value system. Um where different people value different things, they prioritize different things. So, an example you know, he was big on Doge and balancing the budget and doing things like that, has a high focus on financial stability long term, right? And he is going to do things there that that so people or individuals that value that are going to be like, he's doing a great job. He's deporting people that he could be breaking up families, and it's a terrible thing, right? No one, I think I'm gonna say this, but I don't think people want families torn apart and and so forth and so on, but they're valuing something greater than that. And so this comes down to what do you think some of this and some of this disagreements outside of Trump's complete arrogance and being an asshole and a lot of different things in the way he communicates, whether that's a show or not a show, there's clearly a communication thing happening there. How do you think people's value system plays into the way they might view this current presidency? Thousand percent. I think it's it's huge. I think some people are worried about the well-being of the economics of this country, and they're voting, they vote for that. Some people are um big on DEI or other kind of policies and some of the gender debates that have been had, and the whether that's from a sports perspective or just in general, um, and some people are gonna vote one way based on that stuff because that's most important to them or hits close to home. Some are more it's a moral thing, like who is the uh I've heard a lot of people say who's the president that they want their kids looking up to that you know displays, and so they're gonna vote based on that. I know coming from a spiritual community that a lot of people are voting on the person who is going to um push their agenda from uh their particular religion. Uh, and so a thousand percent, and that's where I think we miss each other a lot, is when I say he's doing you and you touched on this uh at the top, which is you can't say whether or not someone is doing something well. You can talk about whether or not they're doing, you know, what they're doing, uh, and where um they are having an impact, but definition of success is different for everybody, not just whether you're on one side of of morals or the other side, or you're on whether or not you want these policies versus these policies, but whether or not those policies are even your the thing that's gonna sway your vote, right? It's like you you get two dimensions of this. What are you voting on? You know, for example, a lot of Catholics are voting on which president is going to um have the most likelihood for pro-life policies or anti-abortion policies to remain in place, right? And that is unequivocally the most important thing because it's murdering innocent lives, and that's it. And so that is us, they put everything else aside, and that's what they're voting on. Now, and and other people on the other side of that, they're like the ability to abort in the right of the women, and and all of that is equally important, and that's at the top of their list, and they'll vote based on that. But I think it's a great point that you might have 30% of the country that are voting on that, and the other 70%, no matter where they fall, they're not that's not even swaying their vote, they're looking at something completely different. Why are we unwilling to let other people have a different value system than us and not appreciate it? Like, why do we feel like I mean, there there's such a divide of like if I go and have a conversation with someone and I'm like they value this more, and that's why they feel this way, and I value this more, and we're not gonna change what what we value, but that creates more divide, and there's the lack of understanding of like, I want to be able to appreciate someone else's value system because their value system is unique to them based on their circumstances, their experiences, and that is completely okay. Doesn't mean my value system's better or right, it just means it's different based on my experiences. And I think we try to convince each other, like, no, no, you're you're like, it's like saying, Here's the Ten Commandments, pick your favorite, or pick the ones you're gonna abide by. And someone says, Well, thou shalt not kill, and someone says, Thou shalt not steal is the most important. And like, well, well, I'd pick steal over kill, or well, you can't do that because killing's worse, and there's this this this anger that boils up, and like, no, this isn't right, and I don't know if it's that simple.
SPEAKER_03:This is gonna boil back down to everything we've said in every podcast, but I think a lot of that stems from not doing hard things, and I'll explain what I mean. I know that sounds cliche. Um, what I mean by that is that because of where so I I think I said in a prior podcast that that anxiety is largely not not having the confidence in yourself to handle things when they go awry, versus being able to kind of roll with the punches. Like tomorrow, if they came out and they said, you know what, trans people are gonna be allowed to compete in female sports. The three of us would probably we'd have our opinions on it, but at the end of the day, we'd be like, okay, there's nothing we can do, you know, if there if that's what it is, then that's fine. We'll life will continue. I think what happens is that you know, because what I try to do is I try to rewind and I try to look at foundationally with people, what is it that's creating this emotion that makes these things seem? Because to your point, people view a lot of this with an end-of-the-world mentality. The reaction is like, if this happens, everybody's gonna die. And so when you, you know, I heard a uh a comment the other day, it was around embracing suffering. But the counter to that was people sitting on the couch scrolling TikTok all day are just moving time forward until they die. Just dopamine, dopamine, dopamine, dopamine. Like, let me get through this, let me survive, let me just get until the time runs out, versus other people. And I'm not saying, like, you know, I sympathize and empathize with those people. Like, I've been there. I think we've all had moments in time when I was in Seattle before you moved out. Get up, go to work, play video games all day, go home, sleep all day, super overweight, never did anything. Like times in our lives where that was us. That's all it was just video games work, sleep, video games work, sleep. Didn't want to get out of bed otherwise, like doing other things that were not necessarily great for my mental health. Of course, in 2000, that wasn't categorized as depression, it just was what you did. Um, but I was in that that that's that thing. So I think what happens is you're doing this, you're fed this information. Uh, John Kuhn did a great experiment where he deleted all of his cookies, he went on incognito mode, he started a brand new YouTube account and he searched, I'm sad and lonely. And five clicks in, he was on this like Jordan Peterson thing. And it was like down that rabbit hole. Well, then you get fed that. You're not, you know, and and you want to feel like an accepted human. And so that informs your perspective. And then having people further down the rabbit hole reinforce, reinforce, reinforce, it gets that much more real to you. It's that much more essential to existence, and you're you're whatever it is, red pilled in or blue pilled, that far down the hole, and there's no way out because your anxiety has built to a point that you can't fathom just rolling with the punch. Like this is the end of the world because there is no confidence, you know, your anxieties. I know I'm rambling a little bit, but your anxiety is so high, and you've gotten to this point that you don't know what to do, and it seems so extreme. And we we have the technology out there to continue to reinforce that. And I think that's why we get to this point where we can't accept somebody else's beliefs because we're so paralyzed because it feels like the most important thing in the world, even though it's really not. There's not any of these things that you brought up that you know, not I shouldn't say that. Very few of these things that we're talking about in my in again, I have to say I have to qualify it as maybe I'm making a privileged statement, um, are as real as some people make them out to be.
SPEAKER_02:So I agree with everything you said. I think a lot of it too is a lack of conversation. There used to be a lot of debate and discussion in person on these types of topics that would help people unwind and come off of them. But the solitude and the reinforcement combined, I think, and the human brain, I think is is predisposed predisposed to doing that. It's where focus goes, energy flows. And the more you focus on something and the more you get wrapped up in it, it um it continues to compound. And I was listening to something the other day that talked about how the brain like is constantly just forming hypotheses, and that's like how it like envisions, and that's what happens. People start to like formulate these hypotheses, and then it becomes reality in their mind, and like that is just how the human brain operates, and it's really fascinating. I think that's what happens. Now, I'll throw a counter-argument out to you because I think there is a beauty in the fact that people are pursuing a single truth. So there's a thing called relativism that uh I think is something that we're warned about in the Christian space and I think in other religions as well. It's like, hey, everybody, do your own thing, you do you, I'll do me, right? And I think some people are pursuing a truth. So uh we'll use the pro-life thing, right? So, like, there's a very strong belief that God is involved in creation of uh a child, right? And I think at eight weeks for most people, for for most people, uh, say that again. Most people believe that, correct. Not everybody believes not everybody believes that, but yeah, most people um or some people, I don't think it matters, that there there is a uh God's involved in that, and uh obviously there that becomes a life, and then at some point it has a heartbeat, right? Like I think we've all had kids at eight weeks or whatever, ten weeks you go in, you hear the heartbeat. There's literally a heart that's beating, and then around two uh gosh, 16, 20 weeks, like you can see like the hands, the feet, like it's actually a human baby, but it's um it just hasn't left the womb yet. It's still underwater, so to speak, right? And so what's interesting is legally that baby is not a person, right? It's hasn't been it hasn't been born, so it's not official. Although, what's interesting, there's a if um not sure if you guys knew this. I I just learned this a few years ago. If you kill a pregnant woman, you can be accused of two counts of murder. So that's interesting too, that it's kind of a life in that regard, but not a life in other regards. So in the Catholic community in particular, there's a very strong belief that abortion is murdering an innocent life that still happens to be underwater, hasn't been birthed, hasn't come out right, and uh acknowledging all of the the horrible things that can happen that can lead to a pregnancy, rape, all those things, like all of that on the table, like totally get it. But there is this um, there is this element that that is murdering an innocent child. And so if I'm voting and like murder or someone's life is at stake in like overturning Roe v. Wade or like those sorts of things, I could see where somebody uh would say this is this should be the most important issue. Who gives a shit how well the country's doing or how many uh immigrants are here or not here, if like real life babies that just haven't come out from underwater are being murdered, so to speak, right? I know that's uh antagonistic terminology, but I'm using that intentionally, right? If that's happening, I need that to be your most important issue too. So I don't I I think there's a beauty, I guess, in that people are willing to go to bat and have that debate and say, hey, I think this should be your most important issue as well, while not completely going off the deep end and wanting to kind of crucify people who ironically who don't vote on that as their top thing. This is interesting because obviously, being a devout Catholic as you are, you're very passionate and everything you say, you just believed. And so could you understand someone who's like, I disagree with that, yeah, and I don't believe it's an actual murder of a baby, and you could have uh be I mean, you may get to a point where you agree to disagree, yeah, but could you have that conversation to where or do you firmly believe that this is murder, and no matter what you say, if you don't believe this is murder, you're crazy. Like how I mean, when you look at this in a debate standpoint, what's your room? But you're crazy because I again I I think it's always important as you're coming to into any of these debates. I think you attack the problem and not the person. I think that's the thing that always happens that gets it's like, okay, you feel this way now I'm coming after you, as opposed to the fact that for whatever reason, given your experiences, background, uh, people you were influences of you, it's maybe not as important to you of an issue to you, or maybe you're on just the other side, you think the right of the mother and the fact that she's got to raise this kid for 18 years and deal with this and maybe be in poverty and not have you know enough to provide for this child, all those kinds of things. Like that's all very real, and I would acknowledge that. So, so for me, I wouldn't have any problem with a person that felt differently than me, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't necessarily fight for the fact that I think it's an important issue or take that issue to task because um, and I could go go more and more on that issue, but uh I I think I just wanted to chime in that I think uh there is a beauty to not being in this world where everyone's just like you do you.
SPEAKER_03:Well, you know, I think with this issue in particular, the funny thing is that I from from what I understand, about 80% are relatively close on like the people that are pro-abortion for the most part is in severe circumstances. Like people don't say, Oh yeah, you know, this girl goes out and and gets pregnant every six weeks and it's just you know, um, yeah. But most people are like, look, in extreme circumstances where she's the the the mother's raped by a a a relative or something like that is where they I think where a lot of this tension comes. And I think that it's really interesting because it's it's a it's a it's a tough conversation to have. And I I I appreciate the you know, you know, the you do you type of thing. It's going to be intriguing over the coming decades, and it's probably been this way since the beginning of time, to see what mechanisms and or methods move society further towards a particular direction. Because you know, I think a lot of this what we do now is it's intense finger pointing, and we're looking for. I I was with a buddy the other day and he said something about it. I said, he said, it's funny, he was like two days ago, he's like, Yeah, the Catholics really care about uh babies, and then once they're born, they want to deport them or something to that effect, right? Like, oh, there it's a huge deal until they're born, and then they just don't conservatives just don't care anymore. They'll fire them left to right to maintain the bottom line in their company. Again, cynical comment, right? But like um, it's you know, but but that's how a lot of these conversations have it sniping each other over social media as opposed to would that person sit down with a with you and have the conversation and say those things? No, probably not. And if he did, you guys would talk through and it would be fine.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Um well, I think what's funny is you what you just mentioned happens, is like, okay, if a Catholic, whoever that was, might have voted for Trump because of he feels like Trump over Biden or Kamala, whoever, would have has a better chance of retaining the the overturn of Roe v Roe v. Wade, that then they're then associated with Trump on every decision he makes, right? It's like, okay, well, now you're this and you're that. And I get that. I mean, I think that's a natural, um a natural association. And I think that's the I mean, it's just like trying to pass a bill in Congress, right? They don't ever just have one bill on one topic, they stack it. So if you're super passionate about uh abortion and you vote for Trump and he's got these other seven things, and you vote for this one thing, well, now all of a sudden these other seven things, you are responsible for all those, and vice versa, on the same side. Like maybe someone voted for Kamala based on this thing, and it's it's a very valid thing because the truth is, is there's probably somewhere in the middle of both of them, they're attacking all the different things in different ways, and we're all gonna have that different value system. And they may say, Oh, well, I think Trump's spot on here, I think Kamala's spot on here, I think Trump's here, and we all know that we probably shouldn't put our faith in the president. Congress does a lot of it, and and then there's this guy named Jesus, but there's this whole thing of where we do this labeling thing, and people start saying, and this is where it gets really dicey. It's like, you know, I'll bring up a little bit of the Charlie Kirk thing, and the first thing I I made a post, like, it's just so sad that someone was murdered, and I get a uh a direct message from a family member is like, ah, he's a he's a racist, and you know, it was just this like three things that were just like right at this dude's throat, and it it just creates this, you know, whether that's right, wrong, or indifferent, where you're getting your information isn't important. I don't think we're here to pick sides today. We all have our own beliefs, but it's that understanding, it's um understanding other people's points of view and appreciating points of view and valuing points of view and being able to end them independently have your own and vote for who you think. Because at the end of the day, whether you want to say or not, like Trump isn't perfect, we don't put our faith in Trump, but there was enough people in this country that felt like that had enough of the issues that were important to them to get the majority vote, right? Like that that's it at the end of the day. And I think you said this earlier. I think people agree more than we probably give ourselves credit for. Like, I think everyone in the country would agree that Trump has narcissistic tendencies, and that's a very generous way of putting it. He I I could put that a lot more bluntly in terms of my own personal opinion, but let's just start there. He's a bit of a narcissist and he has a very much a bully mentality. That's how he's gotten things done. Uh, I'm not saying he's not a nice person. I understand that he's like philanthropically and other things, like in one-on-one conversations, you know, there's there's uh, you know, been some very positive interactions, but generally, I think in terms of his quality as someone, do you want your kids growing up to kind of be like Donald Trump? I don't think many people, I would say the vast majority of the people that voted for him are probably not signing up for that. I that that that may I may be wrong in that, but I think that's where the labeling comes in. People think, oh, they voted for this guy, they must agree with who he is and everything about him and all those things, when I'm not so sure that's actually the case.
SPEAKER_03:That's where I think more of the divisive divisiveness comes into play is when you automatically categorize and or label somebody and or I think those, yeah, categorize and/or label somebody a specific way because of a single decision they've made. We don't typically do that in real life. If you don't put your turn signal on when you turn out of the neighborhood, I'm not going to categorize you as a misogynist just because you did that, because you know, like and and in that's where I think it comes into play is people, you know. I I can't tell you. Um, again, I have the most diverse friend group from a political perspective because I spent over a decade on the West Coast. Uh, I can't tell you how many posts I saw after Trump won unfriend me. If you voted for this guy, unfriend me, block me. You know, I mean dozens. When the Charlie Kirk thing happened, uh, I had a couple of those posts public, you know, show up in my feed. He was this, this, this, and this, or that list of 20 statements that he made. And the funny thing is, is that in today's media uh and uh landscape, you can really tell any story you want to tell. And and then I watched a video because I I love to see both sides, and I I think you know, I say that and I'm sure people will question it, but I watched uh I've seen a lot of Charlie's debates. Um and I've seen him come off very harsh in certain circumstances, and I've seen him go into arguments with no uh no preconceived idea that he's going to back down at all. Um like you know, going into these arguments like this is this is my you know, and and again, like I bin Shapiro, he's very good at debating, and so a lot of these people have no chance. But then I've also seen clips of him um where he is talking to somebody with with with diagnosed ginger dysphoria and saying, Yeah, I I hope you find your solution, and I, you know, I from his perspective, I pray for you and I hope that whatever, whatever. But here's my perspective. So um you know, I've seen I've seen both sides of it. So I see how either side could develop their opinion. Of course, I think everybody holistically agrees that no one should die for the things they say, period, ever. End of story.
SPEAKER_02:Um but the one of the things that was struggling with that is like there were people making associations. Well, like when so-and-so got murdered, the people wore gun, some congressmen wore pro-right gun pins the next day. There was like a justification happening with some of that. And and there's this association. Well, he kind of deserved it, and and that's really the disheartening side of this is like these conversations are necessary, but they don't need to be violent. I was watching a reel recently where Bill Bill Mayer, the guy Mar, he said, you know, me and Trump decided throwing insults 3,000 miles across the country wasn't a good way to do this. So he went and had a conversation with them.
SPEAKER_03:Crucified for doing that because Bill Bill Maher has been a voice voice of the left for years.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, yeah. There's well, I mean, and then Joe Rogan, popular, but I mean, Joe was he was a leftist. Like, I mean, he still is. People are calling him a conservatist now because of what he's doing. But the people that are trying, and I think what Bill was doing and what Joe was doing, they're trying to have a different conversation. They're trying to understand. And they're they're they're not going there to fold, they're not going there to change their beliefs. I think they're trying to find some medium ground because it's what's best for everybody. Like these, the the media, to some extent, whether social or regular, they thrive off of the hate and the the dirtier it can be. And I think it they create divides. And Fox does it on one side, and I don't know what the other one is that does it on the other side, but they're the polarizing stuff is what sells people getting angry. And it I think there's a part of that that is being encouraged that may not be as innate to us as individuals, but the environment is fostering more of that.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, yeah, we want community, right? And if and in a basis, community is sharing a set of base values and base ideas and base perspectives. You flock to the people that are similar to you and that share a lot of these similar things. And like you said, with the with being cut off from society, like that is what I, you know, I've I've maybe made this comment before about large schools, right? And and where we're where we grew up versus where our kids are growing up, mine in specific. Um we grew up in a school where we knew almost everybody, like let's say 80% of the people, and it was a very diverse population, and you learned different perspectives based on conversations with people that you were having in school, because in high school you're forced to be around people. It's not like you get to pick your college and pick your classes. You're forced to be around these people. They grew up differently. We're from an area that's that's got crazy diversity, um, not just from a uh race and and ethnicity perspective, but also from a from a uh economic perspective. And so we got to experience and understand these through not only conversations, but day-to-day interactions and growing up around these people. Well, when you when you're in a situation like a giant school, if you have 6,000 kids going to your school, you can find the five people that are exactly like you. And they will be there to reinforce your perspective on anything. And now expand that to millions and millions of people on the internet. You will find the absolute most specific thing that uh you will find a group, whether that be on Reddit or Tumblr or Facebook or any site, 4chan for that matter, um, that is going to reinforce whatever it is you believe and whatever it is that makes you feel comfortable. And um that's the that's the root of all of it.
SPEAKER_02:That's the danger of it. Well, and simultaneously victimize or label the other side of that opinion as complete idiots.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, this is the you're never forced to deal with that in today's society. You're never forced to sit down. You can work remotely, you can, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02:You're not gonna be able to do that. Well, you uh I guess where I struggle with this is like someone's political choice or value system should never jeopardize their friendship or their family.
SPEAKER_03:Totally agree.
SPEAKER_02:I I should be able to sit down with every single member of the daily family and break bread and have not, and us have different value systems, and they're okay with it, and I'm okay with it. And that's where I think a the conversations aren't being had because we're so politically charged in this environment and we have such strong beliefs. Um, we're getting put in these echo chambers, and the I mean, it's real. People like you voted for this MF or you know, now now you get it. Don't ever talk to me again. And it's like, like, what are we even saying? Like, how is that like it to me? It's like it's it's illogical to take that stance. Like, not too many people have ill intent in life, right? Like, most people are good people, sometimes you make bad decisions, but most people don't have hate in their heart and want the worst, and are like, I want to condemn you, or I want to condemn you. I don't believe that that is people's disposition and their normal wiring. I think we get there through experiences and other things, and that's a whole different story, but we should be able to have difference, and even if we're not talking about it, which I think you can talk about it, and maybe in future podcasts, we'll bring some very differing views on different things on here and have some of these tougher conversations. We should be able to have these conversations, we should be able to do it with friends and family if needed, value other people's um points of view, try to understand. I mean, this is we have a really good friend that's really big on cultural diversity, and I think the main concept of it is understanding, listening, understanding different points of view, understanding different challenges, understanding that not everybody wakes up and views the world from the view that I have. I have a white male, moderately successful um view. So when I wake up, I feel a certain way, I have privileges a certain way, and not everybody has those. And so, therefore, the based on the way I wake up and the experiences I've had, and because I'm a white male and because I'm a business owner, and because I've been successful, I see the world like this, and these are the things that I value most because of that. Could be privileged, you can look at it any different way. Somebody just down the street could wake up completely different. True, but that doesn't necessarily mean there's not a common truth. What I mean by that is just because you wake up and you don't feel maybe the uphill battle, insurmountable uphill battle that someone in a minority group might be bought uh born into, especially if they're in uh, you know, economically in a struggling demographic and being a minority, just because you don't feel that, I think people's interest in, and I think unfortunately people just do it in such unproductive ways anymore, everyone's lost the ability to really influence in a in a meaningful manner, uh, doesn't mean that's not happening. So that's where I think we've got to be careful of hey, this is how I feel, this is how I wake up, so this is how I'm gonna see the world. You know, for example, sex trafficking isn't something that I have ever had any sort of visibility to, has not impacted me or my life in any sort of way, but that's still a big effing problem out there. And we should be, I think it's it's we should be extremely passionate about solving that and helping solve that, even though it's something that hasn't directly impacted us. So I just want to be careful that at least my personal opinion on this is we naturally all have blind spots that based on where we're from. And so I think helping each other round those out is what needs to happen. But to your point, we've lost the art of the ability to have a conversation because we're so polarized before we ever get in the room.
SPEAKER_03:Well, yeah, and I mean, you know, in in that regard, you know, a lot of times before a concerted effort can even happen between people, they're turned off to it, right? Because if let's say human trafficking, and I agree with you, needs to be a major focus collectively for the United States, but 70% of the United States is are are getting called pedophiles and misogynists because of the perception of Donald Trump and the whole Epstein thing. So if you voted for him, you support pedophile, and you're misogynist. Well, then all of a sudden, you may not have completely stifled somebody's, you know, somebody's desire to solve the child sex trafficking problem, but they're now more worried about fighting the public's perception of them as a misogynist and a pedophile supporter uh than they are with the actual thing that they need to solve. I mean, people are spending so much time, especially people in the public eye, especially people that are in influencers or that are um celebrities or whatever, defending themselves from these labels than they are using their platform to help bring perspective to certain things. And unfortunately, because you know, the other thing that's happened in media is you know to gather clicks. I mean, we've gotten to live it. How much more extreme have headlines gotten over the last decade? Like you to get anybody to listen at all, it has to be a 10 out of 10. Like, you know, I mean, I you you pull it up right now, and it's gonna be the most extreme thing in the world. And so um, you know, that's the other thing that's happened is like you have to say something most of the time that's outlandish to even get views, and and there's that double-edged sword where you know the outlandish thing you say is probably gonna be off-putting to half of these people that that you need on your side. So it's like this it is a double-edged sword in that instance. It's like you can't really convey a subtle perspective on things anymore, which is required in a at a lot of in a lot of instances to get people on the same page because at least through media, which again goes back to the art of the conversation and being able to sit down and and talk through different perspectives and understand that um things are different.
SPEAKER_02:It's a broken system, it's a real broken system. One of the interesting things, um I forget which one of you said it earlier. There was a point in time where people were treating this presidency like it was the end of the world, right? And whoever got elected was game over for the other side, for the country. How did we get to that point? And where in history has that ever been the case? Why was why is it to the point now where left and right are so far apart and really the truth is here? And why did we put so much of an emphasis? Why did media create that? Did we create that? Why was this such a pivotal? And where we are now, maybe certain people think the world is coming to an end, and the last 10 months have been the worst 10 months ever. I don't I don't know, but it feels far from what was being portrayed during that time. I mean, I think we've been talking about the whole time. It's the echo chambers and the human brain just continuing to go into the rabbit hole on on, you know, in an extreme manner. I mean, I think unfortunately that's the reality of it. Now, I would want to remain open-minded to also say just because we aren't feeling it or feeling some sort of effects, and that could go on both sides of it, right? I think the three of us is probably an awareness acknowledgement that no matter who was elected, our lives are going to be not impacted in any sort of material way, but that doesn't mean no one's is, right? So I I don't know that I haven't necessarily seen like wages plummet, but you see inflation go up and wages, you know, or at least the for groceries and coffee and things like that. Prices have gone way up. Uh wages I don't know, I don't believe have necessarily adjusted for that. So in terms of purchasing power, there are probably people out there that now does that because of Trump? Is that because would that have been a drastically different if Kamala was in there? I don't know. Um, but I think that's what the that's the beauty of the discussion and the debate, and it's just a travesty that we've lost the art of that because I think there are people that probably sh uh need to continue to enlighten us on things we're not feeling every day, and maybe vice versa. There's some things we could be sharing, but unfortunately we can't have the debate.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's it's people that I never thought, and I maybe I'd fall into this category, I don't know, but like people I that have always been fairly level-headed, I never thought would pop off in some of these instances have been doing so. I think I've mentioned to you guys, and maybe on a prior podcast, this has been months now, but a really good friend of mine for over 30 years um made a comment about it just out of nowhere. I think somebody had posted a meme of Trump. And of course, you know, being from here in high school, we have all differing opinions. You know, we have I would say there's a group of us, and and half are one side and half are the other side. Somebody posted a meme, and this person came back and was furious, um, and was like, and it and it and his responses related to tariffs and about having to fire team members because of lack of profitability and and having to explain to them you know why they need to be let go and you voted for this, and it was this whole like crazy thing. And I tried to diffuse it with humor, but like again, that's not like where are we at when people that have known each other for 30 or 40 years are getting inflammatory over text messages? Um when I mean that just shows you how far things have degraded. You know, back in the day, you would have gone over to their house, you would have picked up the phone and been like, yo, dude, um, or you just would have ignored it because you knew that there was no ill intent, but you could tell that there was some pent up, and maybe that's the other piece of the puzzle, is when you're on social media, you don't get any validation from what you're saying. You're just screaming into the void. And you might get a couple of responses, but a lot of times people will do it and not and turn off comments, or they won't go back and read them because they don't want that that you know, they don't want that conflict. There are there are people that do, but most people don't. They want somebody to, yeah, man, you're right on. Um and so I think a lot of times people don't feel validated in their statements because there is something to the other side of the coin, there is something to the other perspective, and as painful as it is, um, we deal with somebody in business that all three of us deal with, and this particular person is very can be very abrasive and always and very strong in their opinions. But you know, as much as it sucks at the time, and as much as I'm rolling my eyes when I'm on the phone with this person, um when I'm done with the conversation, even if even if it doesn't end well, and you know, I feel validated in at least talking through it. Maybe my perspective did shift, and I do share their opinion now. Maybe I think they're completely full of shit, or may or maybe I feel I'm right, it doesn't matter. There's more validation than than you get from screaming to the void on X or Facebook or whatever else. And and so that was really interesting to me. But I do think you're right that we're here because of that, because of the combination of the echo chamber and the combination of needing to be overly because if if the news on Trump was um, you know, Trump doesn't Trump has uh negative perspective on Hillary Clinton based on their last debate. He doesn't really like her. Nobody's gonna click on that. Trump's a misogynist and hates women. Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02:So it's a it is, it's a very broken system because we are they're doing it because we're clicking on it, and we're until we decide not to click on it, which isn't gonna happen because our brains, the way we're wired, is just to click on that and get the get the dopamine. I want to shift the conversation a little bit and talk. I want to talk about two specific topics. One, I talk about the debt, because this has actually been polarizing. I think this has split some of the people that initially aligned uh with Trump. You know, Musk was one of them, and Doge and Efficiency and all the thing, and then the big beautiful bill came out and and Musk went off the deep end, kind of because what seemed to be this hey, we're gonna clean this up and run an efficient government, then all of a sudden we started to spend like crazy uh through this bill. At least that's the perception. Um all of this is just a perception, as I mentioned, I'm distant from this. Uh, what is your guys' thought on the debt overall? I know you've expressed some concerns about it, although we're it's still in the mix relatively of you know global GDP, debt to GDP compared to other countries. But where are you where do you guys stand on this and and how Trump's doing on this front? Um I have to admit that I have not followed the big beautiful bill hardly at all. So I have no context there. Um I was following pretty closely when Doge first came out, and um the way that the information was being communicated in the channels that I was receiving it, so there's my preface on X, um, which could be the could be a biased uh filter, is that there was just a lot of um a lot of fraud happening. There's just a lot of there's a lot of fraud. Uh people were getting paid that had been deceased. Um some of the studies that were happening were outrageous. They were posting. And so I'm I'm going to state this based on what I saw and I believe was true, but I didn't dig a lot. So this could be an example of me seeing something and being like, oh man, look at all that waste. And so I felt like uh Doge was a great exercise in trying to clean up some of the crazy spending that may have happened over time. And what's happening, what happens with I think government programs, just like anything else, is once you've allocated budget money to it, it's hard to ever take it away. Uh, and so I think there was a lot of um a lot of waste. And I don't know anything about the big beautiful bill and what the spending is and what it's going towards, but I was encouraged that someone was trying to uncover, modernize. I mean, the systems that these things run on and the way that that money is shifted around. And the I mean, there's gotta be tons of room for efficiency, and it was encouraging to see that that was started. And again, I didn't, I'm not paying really close atten uh close attention to the entire thing.
SPEAKER_03:I don't understand it well enough. Um, I will say that I did the next level of digging when it comes to the what was being communicated in those early days as it related to government cleanup, and there was some miss. Uh there were some misses, but I think the thing that that team did was they admitted it that because they're used to, I mean, that's Musk's thing, right? Move fast, break stuff. And so there were some things that they had messed up on. There were some studies that they had miscategorized that actually were legitimate, that they had communicated that that were kind of hokey while there, but in other instances there were some that were not legitimate. So there were some things there. So it was like a I don't know what the percentage is 50-50, 70-30, whatever. Um, and then I've just heard about the big beautiful bill lightly. Again, not any detail relative to the spending. And and I'll admit this: like, I've always been fascinated and kind of flabbergasted at the national debt. And like you said, you know, people get doom and gloom and all crazy about it, but then you make a comment like the ratio of GDP to debt, and it's it's within range, so it's like the again, the the high-level commentary that I've heard around it is kind of like the commentary you hear around global warming, uh, depending on where you where it comes from, right? There's one side where global warming is going, we're dead in ten years. There's the other side, it's like, ah, it's natural temperature fluctuations. Yeah, we're a little bit over it, but we're humans, we'll, you know, eventually invent our way out of this and yada yada yada. Um, and I I think very similarly on the debt side, there are people that look at this like it's their bank account. They're like, oh my God, we're three trillion dollars in debt or whatever, seven trillion, I don't know what it is now. Um the versus what it really represents.
SPEAKER_02:I I think the the part that um assuming that this data is correct, is that each year we are spending more than we're making, right? And I forget the trillions of like how many more trillion we're going in debt each year. So the part that is disheartening is that it just gets worse every year. And that I don't remember if taxes are five trillion and we're spending eight trillion and trying to get that back in line. Go ahead, Nerd. You probably have the stats what you're pulling up right now. I'm just pulling up the the debt to GDP. Is that what you're talking about? Well, that's yeah, that's a ratio, but I still think if you spend more than you take in, you got a problem. That's in that's just basically. Yeah, I think so. I think that's sometimes the case, and a lot of times it's mortgage into the future because in 20 years the dollar's gonna be worth half of what it is now, and so that like there's a fundamental thing there that like what is overwhelming now won't be overwhelming. But if we keep doing that, something's gonna pop. We are 12th. Um, my understanding is like you got Japan is 235%, Singapore 175, Greece 142, Italy 137. Uh, I'm sorry, this shows us as 8th, 123, France 116, Canada, 113. Um, so we're certainly up there, but it's not that it's like no other K to go. We weren't even close, though. Sure. Yeah, there's been a big move in the last 10 years. 100%. 100%. And uh it's gonna be interesting because I think it's it's another one of those things, kind of like the housing bubble. It's not a problem until it's a problem, and then it's it's probably a you know, but I I don't know economically, I'm not educated enough to know when that point in time is because it's almost like you keep kind of pushing, right? Or you keep like adding another str piece of straw on top, and it's like at some point it's gonna break, but we're we're still going. Um let's do it.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, go ahead.
SPEAKER_02:I was gonna, I mean, I was gonna take us down another path. I had one other area I wanted to cover, unless you have oh, I was gonna do an exercise.
SPEAKER_03:I was gonna ask two different AIs to explain the debt to us, but with different context to show polarization, but we can go to your that'd be interesting.
SPEAKER_02:Um give it a shot.
SPEAKER_03:All right, let's see. Let's give me give me just a sec here. Oops.
unknown:Sorry.
SPEAKER_02:Um, why don't you go ahead and go down the next thing and we'll Yeah, so um a lot of what I've seen for those that were associated, uh a lot of the posts that I've seen uh is this about this nationalism piece. Um and the Pope has actually come out and spoke a little bit about this, uh, just in that uh the dignity, human dignity, and that sort of thing, and kind of uh challenging a little bit of some of the deportations and some of the things that are happening. You you I think some people are making some valid posts about okay, here are Christians voting, you know, maybe pro-life, but also endorsing somebody who's maybe not um not approaching the situation how Jesus would in terms of kind of the and so from a Christianity, there's there's some people that are taking that angle, I would say, that uh this administration is having a very non-Christian approach, a very nationalist approach, prioritizing the economy of the United States over the human dignity of people, particularly those that aren't citizens here. Um, and so uh that's the hot take I kind of want to toss out to you both and give you an opportunity to weigh in on it. Do you think it it pours gasoline on the fire that in a sense they're doing it in the name of Jesus? Like there's a there's a a big Christian push and a lot of prayer and a lot of things surrounding Trump and this administration that that seems to be the the flag that they're waving and still maybe operating this way. Do you think there is some um there's some cynicism there and what and the way people are looking at that? Yeah, I mean, I'm sure.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, no, I think that goes back to a couple episodes ago when we were talking about uh faith and work, right? Like, and we were talking about some of the different elements of of that particular scenario. Um it's you know, we when we got to talking about maintaining and being humble. I think that, you know, yeah, waving that flag automatically kind of paints Christians as these people who think they're better and these these immigrants aren't worthy and they need to go back to where they came from. Even just aligning it, you know, and and you don't even have to say that, but it goes back to people labeling and people, you know, saying, well, because you voted for like, yes, you're right, desport gasoline on the fire. You voted for this guy, so you automatically support this. And the fact that you're waving this Christian flag, well, you just think you're better than everybody because that's kind of how Christians are. They just judge everybody else, and you think you're better than this person who's been in America for 20 years and has worked a job for 20 years, is now getting removed from their family because of whatever effort is going on, because they had a parking ticket 10 years ago or something like that being extreme. But um, yeah, I totally think that that's the case. So let's let's let's do this little activity. Okay. So we're gonna ask Grok uh in uh about the national debt, but we're gonna do it from a perspective of somebody who you would uh who doesn't want to be concerned about it. Confirm your age. Okay. Well, um, I got a scroll for this one. So I have a question for you. Everybody seems to be doom and gloom about the national debt. Um, but can you tell me why I I shouldn't necessarily be as worried as everybody paints the national debt to be this you know big bad thing?
SPEAKER_00:Sure, the national debt sounds scary, but it's not always the boogeyman people make it out to be. For one, the US debt is mostly held in our own currency, so we can't default like some countries. It's more about managing interest payments, which are actually manageable right now, about 1.6% of GDP lower than in the 80s. Also, debt fund stuff like infrastructure, schools, and defense, which can boost growth long term, compare it to GDP, and our debt to GDP ratio, around 130%, isn't crazy high for developed nations like Japan, it was over 250. The real issue would be if borrowing spiked inflation or crowded out private investment, but we're not there yet. Focus on the bigger picture growth, jobs, stability, rather than the wrong number. Do you want me to dig into any part of that?
SPEAKER_03:Uh no, that's okay for now, thanks.
unknown:No problem.
SPEAKER_03:Now we're gonna ask Gemini from the other part. So I've been hearing a lot about the national debt lately, and it seems to be this huge problem. Uh can you explain to me why?
SPEAKER_01:It's a big deal because it can affect things like interest rates, government spending, and even economic growth. When the debt gets too high, it can make it harder for the government to invest in important things like infrastructure or education. It can lead to higher taxes down the road.
SPEAKER_03:Is that the case? Is this a really big deal?
SPEAKER_01:It's definitely a serious issue. However, it's worth remembering that the US is at a tiny debt level to people and manage to have a condom.
SPEAKER_03:Well, that's interesting.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it is.
SPEAKER_03:Because if you listen to a lot of it out there, the global perspective is that like the the sky is falling. And maybe it is, but interesting to ask those questions of two different platforms and to kind of see uh I liked that, you know, it's interesting to see how AI responds. I know we've had AI episodes in the past.
SPEAKER_02:Could you imagine though, if that's how people approached it, if people sought to understand in that regard, that they asked the the the way that they are maybe perceiving it and then asked the question, whether it's you know, ask the question maybe the way the opposite was perceived, whether it's with AI or anything else, with someone who's seeking to understand in that regard, would completely transform our ability to get along as a nation. What is your guys' thought on there's probably a good part of the population that just avoids this? Like Yeah, we follow it enough, but none of us have like our politically how much time are you guys spending on political stuff, percentage of of your time day, week, or month? Like I would say five to ten minutes a week. Yeah, and I and I So that's like less than one percent.
SPEAKER_03:And I and I but I think people when we say that we get you get automatically oh, you're privileged, you don't need to pay attention because it doesn't affect you. I mean, I feel like people label you that way, but I'm the same way. I'm I'm probably maybe maybe an hour, you know.
SPEAKER_02:And I'm I'm similar. I mean, I would be the less than one percent of my time, and you think about it, could be easier to just avoid it altogether to some extent. Um the policies passed can and will have an impact on. But most of them are very broad in general and don't have a direct, although some definitely have. Like we should we should be very um open about that. Sometimes you wonder if not being as passionate about it, um, not spending much time there is healthier because the way to consume this information, there's not a good medium. We're not doing it relationally. We're all getting information via our filtered channels. We all have bias, we all have echo chambers. As much as someone like all of us are very aware that we're being fed an echo chamber, we still get our information through an echo chamber. We still have a pursuit of seeing the world a certain way through our value systems. It and to me, it's so difficult to become 100% certain about a certain stance or a certain position because it's hard to trust the information you're getting. It's a fine line. I think you're right. It's difficult, and that's the problem. It's really hard to get a neutral set of information. It's hard to get into this and discuss it without getting obsessed with it. And so I think the easier thing in a lot of cases, and I'll kind of be the first to say I've kind of copped out by just putting my head in the sand and just like not necessarily la la la la, but like there's a there's an extent of it that I am very um, and I'll defend myself a little bit on that while I kind of fall on the sword, which is I'm very stingy with my energy. And I feel like we all start the day with a hundred units of energy, and every ounce of energy that we put into something is an ounce of energy we don't have to put into something else. And the more energy we put into things that we can't directly control or that don't impact us as much, uh, and I shouldn't say us, but I mean even the collective us, not just us personally, but like I'm no problem investing in in my energy in things that help the broader population in some shape, way, or form. But particularly investing my time in things that I can't directly control or I'm not gonna have influence on, to me, you can really um diminish the impact you can have on the world and those around you if you spend a lot of your energy and I mean honestly, any of your energy because it compounds. You look at 1% every day over the course of years, 365%. And if you are not mindful of your energy and what you're spending time on, especially when it's out of your control or you're not going to put a dent in it, uh you got to be mindful of that.
SPEAKER_03:Unless, I mean, one of our biggest human uh needs is that need for community. And if putting that energy towards that thing makes you feel alive and like you're supporting something or you're part of something, I could see why you would do it. I totally agree with you. I I I actually this came up yesterday. Uh I'm sitting in the line getting ready to pick one of the kids up from school, and I get a call, and it's one of our relatives, so to speak, and she's like, Hey, um, have you been monitoring flights lately? Like they're getting ready to fly in a couple of weeks. And they're like, you know, this government shutdown. I'm not sure sure, like, you know, I've heard that there's delays and they're there's you know, they're flights aren't getting in and getting out, and I'm thinking to myself, well, first of all, I yes, I heard about the government shutdown in passing, but I didn't pay it any mind. You could tell with the tone of voice that they had been participating in like a lot of consumption of government shutdown content, and I'm like, um, well, I thousands of flights. I flew in yesterday and I flew out Monday, and I was around 40 or 50 of my friends from the industry who had flown between these 20 some states, nobody, you know, nobody told nobody mentioned anything different. I had the smoothest flights I've ever had, relatively speaking. And so, no, we're good. But you could tell they were wound up because they'd been hearing about this thing that you know maybe it's a reality in some areas, but I mean I flew in, I flew home through the biggest airport in the world and didn't have any problems. And I went through their security the whole nine yards.
SPEAKER_02:So, like one of my favorite quotes was like, if we change the world from the bottom up, and it's if you focused on the ten people that God has put around you, you're gonna make more of an impact than you worrying about the president of the United States and putting your time and energy in there. Um, I think there is truth to that, and I do believe I think that's just a great example of we went to New York City a year ago and and um my father-in-law was super worried about us because he'd been reading the news, and that's the Israel, and there was protests, and there's things, and like it was fine. I saw a post from one of my friends, there's all this stuff about Chicago, and she was sharing, and it was like, hey, this place is so, and it was like a festival and everything was fine. It's like that I think a lot of things, a lot of times uh things are portrayed worse than what they are, and I think that's kind of the the gist of all this is we are taking things to a level of intensity, and things are portrayed worse than what they are. And I don't say that to downplay that people are significantly being impacted by who's in office or who would have been in office, and that there is significant impact there. So I don't want to ever downplay anybody's situation. Um but I do think as society as a whole, we have created an environment to where we're less tolerable, and um, it's kind of disappointing. It's it's anything that is being done that's dividing families and friends um without sitting down and understanding makes you question the level of family and and friend at the end of the day.
SPEAKER_03:I I wanna I want to pose this question. This is something that's interesting to me. Why do you think maybe we've already answered this, maybe this is true, but why do you think that certain people have this desire to protect and or fight for people far, far, far outside of that ten? You know, like somebody who is just completely just you know, call five degrees of separation from someone else that shares maybe nothing in common with them, but they for whatever reason feel like it's worth their energy to ex, you know, to dump it into that person versus one of the ten people around them. How do you get there?
SPEAKER_02:I think it's one of two drivers. I personally think either it's been something that's happened in their life that's given them that exposure to that, or they can relate, even if it's not one of the ten at that point in time, they can either relate to someone who's negatively impacted um, or they have been impacted in a similar fashion at some point previously. I think to me that that's the primary. Although I think there is one other um one other potential cause, and I think it can be more of like you want to be a hero, right? You kind of see yourself as this knight in shining armor that's gonna ride in and rescue this group of people. You know, you want this like altruistic. Uh, I think sometimes there are some motives that maybe aren't 100% genuine, and that may be the vast minority of people. It may be that the I would my guess would be it would be the former would be the majority of it. That would be my guess. I don't know. I think we say the word people sometimes and we try to like think about other people. I'm gonna talk directly. I mean, I I think sometimes I have a tendency to want to protect someone that I feel like is being treated unfairly, right? There's this need to, well, they're being like, you're gonna pick on them, now I'm gonna pick on you, right? And there's this, there's this defense mechanism where we don't like to see people being treated unjustly or unfairly. And I think there are people that will stand up for the things that they believe in and do it and really passionately care about that situation. And I think that's fine within context and understanding and not including violence, and there's certain ways to go about it, but my guess is that there's that's that's a part of it, along with what with what Todd said. Yeah, the reason I had mentioned mine too is this happens, especially in third world countries. Like we go down, we spend some time in the Dominican, as you guys know, helping out an organization, and there's a lot of talk about people who kind of come down from the US and like want to give money and kind of want to see themselves as these heroes that are saving these third world kids from all this suffering and this sort of thing, and there's a lot of ego involved, and they're actually very mindful of who they engage with based on that dynamic, it can be a pretty toxic thing.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Oh boy, all right.
SPEAKER_02:That was a lot. Well, as you get ready for the holidays, um, my hope is that you can mend any bridges, um, you can have conversations, you can appreciate different value systems and ultimately can find some common ground because um people are more complex. Genuinely, we're not great at communicating the whole picture or understanding the whole picture of why someone may have voted the way they voted or did what they did. But ultimately, if you sit down and have a conversation, you're probably going to walk away with a pretty good perspective. Is that a good summary? Absolutely. Okay. That's a wrap. Thanks for checking in. We'll see you next time.