The Dailey Edge Podcast
Join hosts Trent, TJ, and Todd Dailey as they explore the intersections of technology, culture, fitness, and personal growth. Through engaging discussions and personal anecdotes, the trio dives into topics ranging from childhood gaming nostalgia and cutting-edge fitness tech to the pursuit of happiness and lifestyle choices. Whether reminiscing about epic gaming marathons, sharing tips for staying on the forefront of fitness trends, or unraveling the complexities of modern life, The Dailey Edge delivers thoughtful insights, lively debates, and relatable stories for listeners of all walks of life.
The Dailey Edge Podcast
🎙️Episode 26: The Youth Sports Dilemma: Specialization vs. Multi-Sport🎙️
We explore the ongoing debate between multi-sport participation versus early specialization in youth athletics, diving into how competitive environments shape these decisions and the long-term impacts on children's development.
• Hamilton County sports are highly competitive with multiple teams ranking in national top 10s across various sports
• Kids wanting to play competitively in Hamilton County generally need to specialize by age 10
• Parents struggle to discern whether specialization is parent-driven or child-driven
• Building discipline, social connection, and work ethic are primary benefits of youth sports
• Community and peer relationships are crucial factors in athletic development and motivation
• The financial investment in youth sports has created an "arms race" with some activities costing tens of thousands annually
• Children need unstructured downtime to decompress from the pressures of school and organized activities
• Smaller communities like Marion offer more opportunities to play multiple sports at competitive levels
• Sports can teach valuable life lessons when approached with proper perspective and balance
• Parents should regularly evaluate why their children participate in sports and what they hope to gain
Welcome to the Daily Edge, where we bring you the latest insights, opinions and thought-provoking conversations to give you that competitive edge in life, business and beyond. Let's go, welcome back to the Daily Edge. I am here with my brother, tj, and Todd, and today we have decided to talk about youth sports. Yay, there's a lot of different aspects of youth sports, but one of the things that we find kind of fascinating, that we want to spend time on, is multi-sport approach versus locking kids into a single sport at a young age. So we've all had various experiences here. We always like to preface everything. We're sharing our own experiences and what we see and what we believe doesn't mean it's gold. So we're going to have a good debate today, talking about multi-sports and the benefits and the pros and the cons, and with you know, with you guys living in Indy, let's just, let's just focus there.
Speaker 1:I'm going to turn this to you. It's almost an expectation to specialize. I mean, there's so many kids and people are so dialed at such a young age. It's almost like if you don't decide what you're doing by age eight or nine and you don't do it around the clock, they have no chance of playing a high school sports. So would love you guys to kind of talk about that, which I know that could eventually lead to burnout as well. Kind of give me your thoughts around the environment you guys are in and some of the demands around how you guys approach youth sports. I'll just briefly start by saying it is a highly, highly, highly competitive area. Great athletes really, in all kinds of sports. I mean indiana is certainly known for its basketball, uh, but I think across the board baseball running uh, soccer, uh, really any sport you can think of. It is olympic diving. I would say diving it is.
Speaker 2:I would I just really quickly. I made this comment the other day. I would say say it's a fair. I'd say in Hamilton County, at any given time there are probably two to three teams in the top 10 in the nation in sports. I think right now, like Carmel girls are number five in the nation in cross country, probably number one in the nation in swimming. So like I'd say, at any given time there's a team in Hamilton County in the top 10 in the nation in a sport.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like I'd say at any given time, there's a team in Hamilton County in the top 10 in the nation in a sport. Yeah, and that's all the way up from a sports to to school sports, and there's just part of it is there's an insane amount of resources being dumped in, I mean the coaches and the trainers, and you've got mental coaches and skill coaches and just it's a, it's an insane environment and it makes it tough. I think there are pros and cons, uh, to it. Um, I'll kind of stop there at a high level before we get into specialization.
Speaker 2:no, and I think I want to talk at a high level too. I think what, for me, what I've had to do in that environment is back up and try to think about our sports experience as youths and how. That's how much different this is than that. But why am I doing this? I think that's been a big question with my with myself and my kids. Why are we doing this? And for me, I've had to reframe it as we're doing this to establish what we talked about a couple of podcasts ago discipline.
Speaker 2:You know, a sports field is a safe place to test your limits. I'd much rather they test them there than somewhere else to see how far you can push yourself. It's a great way to see the effects of hard work. It's a great way to develop social connection. It's a great way to build camaraderie and strategize and all of these things. So like stepping back and constantly reminding myself that that is mainly why we're doing this is, for me, how I've been able to maintain some level of sanity in an environment like that. So that's kind of my high level comment in an environment like that so that's kind of my high level comment.
Speaker 1:So you coach running. Arguably you have a daughter that's locked in pretty heavily. It's not her only sport, but you know, you have probably been exposed to or at least in the running community seeing kids that are just all in on that, versus more like, talk us through what you see as a, as a coach uh, as well as your daughter. Maybe through that that lens.
Speaker 2:This is a tough one because I experienced some real anxiety and stress. Goodness, what is you know, very, very recently. So she just started middle school cross country, um, and, and there are a couple different things here. You know, with her it's just I got lucky. I exposed her to a sport over a week when she first began and she ended up finding some identity there and ended up enjoying the challenge and ended up kind of getting into this cyclical or circular scenario where you know she was accomplishing things, she was loving the feelings she got from accomplishing things and she was kind of rinsing and repeating Uh, she was lucky enough to be in a little lower pressure environment. I think that's a great thing about running anywhere is it hasn't been touched yet, right? You're not expected to as heavily as in other sports, six, be this crazy successful person. So we were able to keep it really casual and focus on because it's an individual sport as well inner competition versus external competition, get better every day and then just showing up consistently has put her in a position where she's been enabled to appreciate the rewards, all the things I just said, all of those secondary benefits At the same time.
Speaker 2:You know you do, and this is where it gets difficult from a coach's perspective. You see, kids who are naturally gifted. We know them, we see them, we you know they come out, they've never run before and they show up the first day of whatever and they just destroy people. Or maybe they struggle for a week until they figure out pacing and then they're just here. And you know, I've I've struggled a lot with that because I have a couple of friends whose kids are those kids. Uh, and you know, it's a situation where the kid sees that success which I think, over and above everything I just discussed, is probably the most, um, most inspiring for a child Like when they start to win and you're winning everything, you want to do it more because it feels good, and winning everything opens up doors.
Speaker 2:People are treating you a certain way, you're getting to experience things you wouldn't normally, you can travel, and so then you become not the parent pushing where you're like, oh, you got to be better, you got to be better. A lot of times that's us living through our kids and you're the parent. That's like getting criticized because people see your kid's success and they're like, oh, he's got to be running 50 miles a week, like there's no way when, in all reality, there is some natural ability and you're actually pulling them back a little bit. So that's another, you know, angle here, when it comes to running is like if you have that kid, you're the parent.
Speaker 2:That's like trying to like hey, I want to make sure you can show up and do this every day, because you know the result of you may be getting hurt and falling way behind, and then that, what does that or what that does to your confidence, that can be a big issue for people. So you know, I'll say this and then I'll kind of you know, for me what's happened is things have changed a little bit in the last year. So this is relevant to the conversation, because club track and cross country is probably, from a broader perspective, more akin to like CYO or like rec, meaning that there's just not a lot of it. So there's not a lot of it because a lot of these kids are doing other sports and so Kay will come out and you know, for track she's the number one, 11-year year old, in the state in the 3k right, and so you have this picture painted and you're like club track and club and club track right.
Speaker 2:and so you have this picture painted like and these expectations. Well then she gets into middle school and she does time trials and she's, you know, in middle school in Hamilton County they do it like they do in high school. You have varsity and then JV and then whatever. And she does her time trial and she's on varsity as a sixth grader Great accomplishment. And she goes out and she runs her first meet where they select the top five and they go run it and she does okay, she was sick but whatever. And then she has her first actual dual meet yesterday or not yesterday, a couple weeks ago, whatever and I'm sitting there pre this meet at like three o'clock.
Speaker 2:The meets at 5 30 and I'm freaking out and I'm like, why, what? Why, like? I'm trying to explore my thoughts. Why am I so stressed out about a sixth grader running? Am I living through this Like? Am I upset because I was a poor runner in middle school? Am I stressed out because I think she's got more potential, because I see what potential I've been able to unlock over this? Like what's going on, Thinking through all of those things? She goes, she races out of 50 girls, she finishes 11th. She finishes sixth on the team, so she doesn't score. But she's right there.
Speaker 2:And for a moment I'm like a little disappointed and I had to, like I drove to Marion after the meet that day and I, the whole way, I'm like, well, I'm exploring my thoughts, Like, and then by the time I'm here, I realizing I'm super proud of her. It's a great accomplishment. Um, you got to remember. Again back to my initial comment on you know why we do this. And I think, when you, when you look at running and you look at these different types of kids and these different levels and the ones that are pushing and versus the ones that aren't, um, as long as you find the balance for that particular kid, I know we beat this to death in terms of listening and kind of trying to pay attention.
Speaker 2:Like I was trying to be hyper-focused after the race as to what her mindset was and how do I I know I've gone off the rails here but how do I compliment that and keep her in the right headspace and keep her pushing forward? But yeah, I mean, you know, from a running coach's perspective, kind of seeing different people do things different ways. It's been very interesting to see. And then there's the third side of it, which I think you probably wanted me to talk about, which is the people that are living vicariously and the people that are running their kids 30 to 40 miles a week and berating them when they don't have good races. I'm anxious to see how that works out for them.
Speaker 1:Well, I think you're making an assumption, which I'd like you to clarify, that kids that play a single sport year round is being driven by the parent and not the kid. Would you guys both say that that is probably a fair assumption? It's interesting, I would say. It's tough to say, and here's why is I think the kids want to be great. Generally, they want to excel in the sport that they're playing. However, that is maybe a pre-season conversation and in the heat of the weeks, right when you're on your third practice or your eighth hour of doing that particular sport the fourth week of the season, they're not feeling that they're. You know they want to. They're looking for a way out, and I've been struggling with this with Noah a lot. He and I have just been having an open conversation about it, but he tells me that he really, really, really wants to be great at golf. He's like I really want to be great at golf and I want you to push me and I want to do this. And so last night uh, he's just hanging out after school did a little bit of homework. It's like six o'clock, six, 30. He's got probably could go over to Bridgewater for a couple hours and say hey, you want to go over to Bridgewater. And uh, I, um, he said no, not really. I said okay, I said I'll go with you if you want. He's like, okay, I'll go over there. Well, this is tough because he's had a full day of school and so mentally and they, they run pretty hard and so mentally he's exhausted and it's like he's right in the heat of that. He's got six spring tournaments coming up and he wants to shoot. Well, he was shooting in the low nineties in the in the fall tournaments. He was shooting in the low nineties in the spring. He now wants to be mid to low eighties in the fall and like, he really wants this, and he's telling me he want this.
Speaker 1:So then I go to, uh, I go to Bridgewater with him and he's doing this little putting drill that he learned from his coach and he's got, you know, 12 tees around the hole at three feet and he's going around and putting them and, um, he misses. He's struggling essentially, and I was like you know what's going on? And he's like, well, I'm not, I don't, I don't know what I'm doing wrong. And he, he wasn't paying any attention essentially, it was just kind of going through the motions up there and I'm like dude. He went up to hit a putt and, like the tee was in the path of what he was going to hit his ball. He was too lazy to like move the ball over so he could actually make a intentional stroke. Just because he was so exhausted mentally, he just wasn't there.
Speaker 1:I was like dude, you're not even, like, you're not even like making an attempt here, you're being incredibly lazy, like we're better off going home right. Like, don't come out here and practice. It's not just you're not going to get better just by practicing. You got to practice with purpose. And so we get into a little bit of a debate and a discussion and, and you know, fortunately he and I can kind of work through this. It doesn't get too emotional. But essentially we've been talking about last night and since then it's like he says, yeah, I really want it.
Speaker 1:But then it's like well, how hard do you want me to push you? I said I am not going to so, uh, I'm not going to let this ruin our relationship. Like I'm not going to push you so hard that you have this kind of you develop this, uh, this uh persona of me. That's just the guy there. That's like hammering you to do stuff you don't want to do every day.
Speaker 1:I said if you don't want to be like so I'm getting full circle on this. I said I don't care if you're a great golfer or not, I really don't. But if you tell me you want to be a great golfer and you tell me that time and time again and you, that's what you really want. I will help push you through those moments. And I think that's where it gets fuzzy as to whether it's the parent or the kid, because generally I think the kid wants it, but kids just the way they're wired and mentally and the development of their brain, and they haven't developed the discipline, the grind, the, you know, those other parts of their brain to really persevere through long periods of training. And so that's where I think it's tough.
Speaker 2:That, yeah, that's that. I would echo that. That's been a really hard thing because Kay said, since she in third grade, she wants to be a pro athlete. Well, we know that there are a lot of factors in play there. One of those is elite physiology, but the other one is even in running and that and it looks different for everybody right, a pro athlete here's.
Speaker 2:Here's my opinion, maybe wrong, but this is what I believe. There are pro baseball players. If you want to play in the major leagues, you have elite physiology, pretty much bar none. If you want to be a pro baseball player and play double, a single, a scrape behind a living, be on the road with the boys, awesome. If Kate wants to be a pro athlete and that is a pro roadrunner when she's 25, makes the Olympic trials, maybe has some small sponsorship deals, I think that's attainable.
Speaker 2:Am I going to tell her she can't be a Cole Hawker? I'm not going to tell her that, but, like you know, I think there's a. There's a. There's a different level of physiology at play. It's the same thing with. You know, I was talking to a friend of ours that we all know, jordan Bragg, and he's like I could have played in Europe. You know I could have signed on to some smaller European team and played in Europe and got that exposure. I don't have the physiology to play in the NBA, you know. So there's different, you know levels.
Speaker 2:But she says she's wanted to be a pro athlete and I have those same struggles where, okay, but I can tell with that push and pull where her limit is and if, if yesterday, after finishing her middle school race, I go up to her and I'm like you just ran a minute 15 slower than your 3K time on the track, different course, right, you ran 35 seconds slower than you ran your last cross country 3K in December of last year and you've built fitness over these last six months. What is going on? What's wrong with you? Then? Like you said, I think that does damage to the relationship. But again in the back of my head I'm like I think she wants this. How do we like, how do we navigate? And you see, I think you see a lot of parents trying to figure out how I go back to stuff. Dad used to say there's different ways he used to talk about your basketball team and different ways to motivate different kids, and it's like.
Speaker 2:I think, coming from a parent's perspective, I think maybe a lot of times it looks like from the outside in that they are driving this and that it's their obsession, and I think this opinion parents that aren't or haven't ever been active in sports probably struggle more with how to balance that, because there's a lack of understanding there. I'm not sure.
Speaker 1:What about parents, though, that are like weekend warriors that are running, that are doing a lot of these things and because they have, as adults, ran some five Ks, kind of maybe gotten into fitness late in life, they, they push harder. I'm just wondering if that's a parallel. As well as that, you know you're like and and I mean you're probably creating a different environment for your children, so they're looking at things differently, cause, to your point, like back when we talked about Prairie, it's kids that see their parents out there running 60 miles, have a different context, a different lens on different things. Um, I know just with my daughter, who has started a running streak as well. She's running a mile a day and she does it whether she has practice or not. So she'll go to volleyball for an hour and a half, soccer for an hour and a half, and she comes home and runs a mile, and when she started that she was running the typical we all started 11 and a half minute mile barely could breathe, and just within a month she ran a seven and a half minute mile, and that's from 10 minutes a day of being consistent, but now it's part of her discipline and her drive, but I still like I think some of the motivation comes from different places.
Speaker 1:But when you talk about physiology being at play for elite level athletes, when you go to Hamilton County, if you want to play basketball year round, you play basketball year round. Primetime has leagues. You got the pack, you got the Finch Creek, you've got all those places and there's got to be a fear where and I've talked to some people that I know where they'll register their kids even if they can't make practices to play in a few games and pay for the whole season just to keep them in but, like if everyone's still playing all the time and you yank your kid out for golf season, there's got to be some anxiousness or anxiety. When they go back, they're not going to be on the first or second team now, they're going to be on the fourth team and they're going to. You know like, oh, they're going to fall down. Like, how do you guys navigate that? Probably same in soccer. I know you guys have kids in soccer at the end of the day.
Speaker 2:I had a guy say this to me the other day who's kate play soccer with his daughter? Most of our kids are playing in, or will compete in, just different levels of rec, like the odds Meaning they're not going to play in high school or they're not going to play yeah.
Speaker 1:It's just always going to be club and it's going to find the competitiveness for their, for their level and if they love it and they want to go, I'll use running, run D3, d2.
Speaker 2:Okay, you know cause you're going to be that level of of competent. Just participating in sports in hamilton county, you know, no one could go and play golf at garren and play at a d2 school, probably no problem. Is he going to play number one for carmel and go play at iu? You know, like, so there's these different and we get, we do we get so caught up in like, oh man, you know, you know, hey, there are, we'll use Fishers. There are 7,000 kids between those two schools. What do you think the odds are with primetime, like, how many? Basketball? I mean, there are what? 10 soccer clubs? Probably the same amount. What do you think the odds are? You're going to be one of those 20 kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you have. I mean, it's not just the number of kids. You have people that are coming in from all over the state and all over the region to play sports in Hamilton County so you're not just dealing with the natural selection process of a county with 350,000 people.
Speaker 1:You're dealing with the fact that a lot of people are coming to town for this specific reason. So you're essentially competing against the pool, at least statewide, if not not more broadly in some cases. The one thing I was going to say is the multi-sport thing. If you are going to try and play competitively, you can play multiple sports recreationally or socially, and we talk about that a lot. That terminology is very normal around our houses. You can play this competitively or you can play this leisurely, and I think that's a huge distinction. But to your point, if you are going to play a sport competitively in Hamilton County, you do need to be specializing, depending on the sport. Probably by the time they hit double digits if not sooner.
Speaker 2:And the problem is, as this continues to grow, is rec is becoming more leisurely. You know, like there's a difference between like, for instance, in elementary miles plays soccer with his friends on the playground. There's a difference between that and playing like rec soccer, where you practice one so we can have games. But this rec soccer is becoming more like kids playground soccer than it is the other way. So a lot of those secondary benefits we talk about, we're seeing the value of hard work and all you know it's becoming less prevalent in a rec because anybody with any amount of you know looks like desire and you talk a lot about that balance, right, that sweet spot of balance from a competition standpoint challenge skills, balance challenge skills.
Speaker 2:Balance right Is is, you know, and there's and there's all, there's, all of these entities that are gobbling kids up, and so what's happening is rec is getting more and more and more and more rec, and so, you know, you get the social aspect of of that. If you're playing playground soccer with your kids, you're probably not following rules. There's probably not a lot of strategy there, there's some camaraderie, so you're getting maybe 50% of the secondary benefits we talked about. Because of the way that's going Um there. I don't know how much uh of a financial impact, or I don't know how much of a financial impact. I don't know how much finance is impacting that, but I've definitely.
Speaker 2:I had a long conversation the other day about baseball in Hamilton County and traditionally most of the youth baseball was community-based NYB, noblesville Youth Baseball, carmel had theirs, westfield had theirs, yada, yada, yada. What's happened is primetime baseballs come in and they're recruiting and pulling these kids from these community programs that are volunteer-based and that are funded that way, and so then they're pulling from rec and pulling more kids and it's just this funnel where everybody's getting pulled up. And you know, you look at some of these bigger programs they don't care how good you, they just want your money. Oh, now, instead of primetime having one through four, we have seven teams right and it gets really interesting and we see it a little bit in the soccer side of things.
Speaker 1:It's interesting because, arguably, the pinnacle used to be playing high school sports and that may not be the At the end of the day, if the goal of sports is to build discipline and kids used to have fun.
Speaker 1:In some essences we've sucked a lot of that out, but in others it's like maybe it isn't to play golf in college or it isn't to play golf at a high school level. It's to work at something, get better at something, enjoy the sport, which would lean more towards multi-sport versus this hyper-focus, especially in Hamilton County where even hyper-focused kids I have a buddy, his daughter worked hard all summer to try to make the volleyball team and didn't make it, and like that happens time and time again with kids and you know it could be a good, a good lesson learned, but it also is. As a parent, I'm sure it's frustrating, but it seems like from your guys's and tell me if I'm interpreting that wrong that you guys are like no, this is I. I encourage multi-sport because the reality is is what it is, which, if you focus in on something, your ceiling's only going to be so high because of your.
Speaker 1:I mean I'm open to what my kids want honestly. Um, noah has made it pretty clear that he wants to play golf competitively, and so I think that's okay, I think the natural, I think at least in this society and don't get me wrong there are parents who are screaming on the fields and the intensity of youth sports in Hamilton County is just crazy beyond the talent level and the that.
Speaker 1:It's just like all this energy because they're putting in all these resources and it's expensive and like parents, emotions and passion obviously elevates with how much. Just like anything, the more you put in, the more intense you are. It's gotten crazy. That being said, and I think naturally the tone, especially from other communities, is oh, this is such a travesty.
Speaker 1:People, we used to grow up and do this. We could play six different sports and we played in high school and you know, kids had fun and enjoyed it and now I think that's kind of the general line is we've sucked the fun out of it and not we, as in, like you know, but I think hamilton county in general, like that sort of uh, uh, you know, uh environment and like kids are just being held against their will to kind of excel at these sports and they're burned out by 14 and that sort of thing. I'll play the other side of it. I think it can be done very well and I think it can be very beneficial. I think kids can learn some very difficult lessons, because sports, as TJ talked about in previous episodes, is a great place to learn and it is very hard to achieve elite levels in sports. It's easy to go play soccer right. Every, every, everything we do generally has this like law of diminishing returns. You know, the first few years you play it you're seeing all this progress right, and then you plateau and it gets really really hard to go that next mile and you have to put in. The more effort you put in and the gains are less and just like the proportion of the effort you put into the progress you make continues to drop over the course of your career. That's just it. So it's very, very easy, relatively, to play soccer for a few years and kind of get better at that, or play soccer for a few months and you get a little bit better, and then you go to the next sport and you start back at the bottom, you get a little better and then you just kind of rotate through the seasons and it's fun. Everybody's doing their thing.
Speaker 1:When you are specializing in a sport, the mental toughness, the level of precision, the discipline that's gained from really trying to achieve at elite level in a certain sport I think there's a lot to learn from that if done right. If done right, as TJ mentioned, this all comes back to awareness and effort and intentionality. If you're seeing where the kids' limits are and you understand that balance and you're continuing to kind of push them along and the competitiveness around them is pushing them along and the expertise of the coaching is pushing them along, they are learning to achieve in a very unique way that I think will help them professionally. You have a lot of companies out there that hire D1 college athletes because they've achieved at one of the highest levels. They've proven to be able to grind through, they've proven to be able to have an attention to detail. That ultimately makes a difference in professions as well. So I think, while it does get demonized for good reason in some senses, I also think there are a lot of pros to that environment Because at the end of the day, after high school, certainly after college, almost nobody's going to play anything right.
Speaker 1:So it's like, okay, someone who plays five sports in middle school and a few sports in high school, sports in middle school and a few sports in high school, you know, are they going to have, you know, this quality of life that is, you know so much better than someone who specialized. And you know I'm someone who believes that the world's got plenty of people who are good at stuff right. The world needs people who really excel and are great at things. Not necessarily athletics, because if you're not going to play at the professional level, you don't, you don't have much to offer there. But I think that mindset bodes well into a professional setting where it, while you want to be well-rounded and uh, you know ensure you've got a broader set of skills. I think there is value to really excelling and learning how to excel at the highest levels, whatever you're doing. So I would that. That's the devil's advocate side that I would throw out. But I'd be interested in your take on that, because Marian's a different environment.
Speaker 1:We've touched on this a little bit, right and and so, yeah, well, we're the opposite of Hamilton County. Gosh, I don't even know where to really start. Our youth sports is operating somewhat similar to what it has for 30 or 40 years. Our population has declined. Our school systems in a county that has maybe 90,000 or 80,000 now has five school systems and within that there's multiple rec programs. I mean, there's a rec soccer program in Marion, there's a rec soccer in Gas marion. There's a rec soccer in gas city. There's a rec soccer in okil.
Speaker 1:Um, it's very bifurcated and the barrier to play high school sports at this point in time is pretty low. If you wanted to sign your kid up for golf and he's eight, nine, ten years old, there's no place to go. Um, you could take him out to one of the golf courses, but there's not really anyone given instruction. Or I think Merritt high school ran a clinic, you know, for a couple of days this summer, which was great, but there's there's just not the infrastructure and the money and the system.
Speaker 1:I've done a lot of research in this and I feel like there's a system that Indianapolis uses and Fort Wayne uses and they've kind of morphed to a. You know they run these eight to 10 week leagues year round, and so there's generally four of them and you sign up for a league and each week you get a team practice. You get a technical development and training practice where you work on fundamentals. So in soccer that would mean you'd go to just a practice, or maybe it's two, where you're just doing dribbling, passing, juggling, getting touches on the ball. So when you show up at your team practice, everyone knows how to do the basics right. That's the premise of it. And then there's a game, and it seems like those are three kind of pillars and generally the technical development is done by maybe a third party or someone that really specializes in that, and so that seems to be the model that your Hoosier FC, your Indy Premier and then same with Fort Wayne United on the soccer front and similar in basketball I think there's M14 that does stuff that you can go in and you know, get the shooting gun and put in your own work and do stuff like that.
Speaker 1:But that seems to be the system. There's a focus on technical development and training which we have not been able to bring to the Grant County area. So when you find someone that is athletically talented or gifted or is in love with a particular sport and wants to play more than whatever season there is in grant county because generally if you're playing a season you're kind of in a season uh, they tend to navigate and leave the community or they travel, right. Um, you know, we've had a few kids from grant county just recently get on the mls next team, right, and they're that's the highest you can pretty much be as a kid. Uh, so I think the interesting part about here is like genetics, right, and you talk about different areas. Obviously you have a higher population, you have more pool to pick from, but genetically the kids here are not that different than kids that are 50 miles away. Geographically it's really the system, and so we lack a little bit of that system and infrastructure.
Speaker 1:But there's a lot of people that are really passionate about it, that want to make a difference and want to change and want to build better systems to help our kids continue to get better. But our kids are not competing with the Hamilton counties of the world. I mean, we're still in the NCC and I don't think it's a problem. That's just in Marion, I think. A lot of those communities, the Kokomos, the Andersons, I mean I'll just give some examples. You know we're like.
Speaker 1:My son plays golf, um, he played high school golf last year and you know we went to NCC and and, uh, I think the number one score at the NCC golf match was in the eighties, um, so like there, I don't know like.
Speaker 1:And then you think about, you know, screens and other focuses and desires and where people are spending time and and so there's a lot of stuff of that that plays in.
Speaker 1:There's a ton of opportunity to be a a good athlete and compete and play high school sports, um, but because the lack of system and infrastructure and I think us taking a focus on it, it's not near at the level of competitiveness and so I don't feel like too many people are single sport athletes here, because they don't have to be.
Speaker 1:You can easily play soccer basketball, like, if you're a hard worker and you want to play multi-sports here, you can at the soccer basketball, like, if you, if you're a hard worker, um, and you want to play multi-sports here, you can at the high school level, uh, and then at the club level there's I mean, there is a local soccer club that plays in in isl, that in indiana soccer league called um central indiana football club that competes. But even in that, like isl, isl has three tiers. You know, you, you sign up and then above that there's academy teams and so forth, and we don't have any of those here locally. But there are people that are focused on it, um, and people that are wanting to make a difference, but we are not, uh, I don't believe there's too many single sport athletes here.
Speaker 2:It's, it's weird, because it's it's kind of sad because, you know, a lot of times people often say that, like a Tiger Woods or a Michael Jordan found the sport they were supposed to find, like what if for some reason, they didn't get that exposure? And, to your point earlier, if you don't specialize by, if you again, you hear a lot and I want to state this first I may have said this before on other podcasts that look at the pro athletes. They play all kinds of sports growing up, they do this, that and the other thing and I always use this guy as an example LeBron James could do whatever he wants. Randy Moss could do whatever he wants. Like you meet and we've had that exposure you meet a pro athlete. It's just different. It's just a different level. They have something. Even Zach Randolph, right, you growing up playing with him and watching Zach. Zach wasn't a specimen in terms of his physical capability, but at his height and then seeing his touch and his just understanding around the rim, it's just different.
Speaker 2:And so, yes, these pro athletes were able to do that because tony sharon, had he been like they can, just. It just is what it is. Most of us don't not. You know there are 150 million men in America and 483 are in the NBA, like it's a different level. So you know, unfortunately in Hamilton County you may not have the opportunity to find it, because if you're not specified, if you don't have that physiology, and you're not specified by 9, 10, it's a wrap. You just can't keep up.
Speaker 2:And part of it is what you spoke about with the fundamentals. You know Miles started playing soccer for four and a half hours a week when he was six and you know that was an interesting balance because he showed promise early. He was outside of the I always forget the name of it the window of competitiveness. It was not fun, it was, and so we found this thing for him and it was supposed to be casual and it kind of wasn't. And now what's unique is that this is really interesting for somebody his age, he just turned seven and last year he wanted to play basketball. The grass is greener, right. Soccer is this drudgery, whatever, whatever you know for him.
Speaker 1:You said there's an eight-week season For Miles, the end of their season happened in trials for the next week, so it's a 51-week season Soccer is, yeah, maybe 48 weeks when you factor a couple of breaks in there, but relatively speaking, and it's long.
Speaker 2:And so he tried basketball and he wasn't as good. He's undersized, he couldn't get the ball to the rim, he never scored and consequently, kids who perform like that in practice they don't pass the ball in the games. But all of his friends played basketball. Well then, all of his friends for school want to play football and so this year I want to play football. He's like 30 pounds, soaking wet, so he yeah right. So he goes out to play flag football and the first practice is fun and whatever, and the first game is whatever. Tara called me yesterday. It was like miles, I'm gonna play football anymore, cause they don't pass him the ball and because he's going to soccer games and they're winning soccer games by 20 goals. No-transcript, but developing that early foundational skillset.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's super. What just triggered for me it's like kids want to be competent, competitive, regardless of level. I had lee um started playing volleyball last year her saint paul team kind of her first run at volleyball. And I just remember last year going to the games and the ball would get hit over the net and then everyone would just kind of watch it and it was like just just get after it, get after it. And she had never played and you know they were kind of all really new to the sport. Well then her and a couple of the girls decided to play travel GCVC for just one season and they got exponentially better and then went to that game last night. And so she's had this season of volleyball and it's been a completely different game where there's this understanding and then there's this passion and they're encouraging each other and it was able to lift the whole team up.
Speaker 1:But getting to that level of being competent and knowing what to do, and it doesn't matter whether St Paul is playing these X schools or Hamilton schools, they're being competitive in the realm that they're in and they understand the sport. And I think there is something to that, because I think at the end of the day. Kids want to be productive, they want to be competent, they want to be able to compete and feel like they can make a difference and not get out there and not know what to do or people not passing the ball. And getting them to that efficiency level is allowing them to play multiple sports when they're young, so they have that baseline, they can catch a ball, they can shoot a ball. And how do you help them work through that early on? Because those are the tough points of like they've got to kind of grind through that to get to a level of where they can actually play with other kids as they get older.
Speaker 2:And in Hamilton County, unless you have, like we've all known kids that there are pro athletes and there are natural aptitude kids that could probably get away with playing four sports until they're 10, because they can shoot, they can pass, they're physically big enough um, maybe 12 or something like that. But then then you get to the point where you're you. You get stuck because you just haven't spent time on those foundational skills and, like you said earlier, miles does an hour and a half of just ball skills a week, just with Mario.
Speaker 1:Maybe that works incredible.
Speaker 2:Like for and he's the eighth best, 10th best kid on his team in terms of footwork, and so like it's, it's on it's. It is a little bit unfortunate, but at the same time you know you make a great point Like it's rewarding for them playing well and and seeing themselves get better. And I think he's realizing that through oh wait, soccer did come naturally to me that it's doesn't that doesn't happen in every sport and he's realized that.
Speaker 1:Would you rather your kids be in the position that you guys are in, or in a spot where, like you, moved to Grant county k's the number one runner for every year miles is starting on the soccer team as a freshman no, is leading the golf team, you know?
Speaker 1:Like in a spot where they're at the top, based on the discipline that's already been instilled in the environment they're in, versus continuing to have to work, work their way up? I would prefer the the current environment more, because we've said a lot, if you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room, and so for me, I think that competition and that's part of our decision in the school system as well the better the competition we play to our competition. Psychologically we're wired that way, and so I think when you get out into the broader world, the competition that you played to growing up, I think can and we're just talking about sports here, right. So I don't think at the end of the day now you do learn to play again in that higher end of diminishing returns, which is a good skill, but I would say that I don't know. That would be my philosophy?
Speaker 2:I don't know that would be my philosophy. I don't know, Because I see one area I see Kay thrive is in leadership. When we did our summer run club this week or this summer with some of the girls, she really enjoyed leading them, taking them out on easy runs, leading stretches, whatever, whatever.
Speaker 1:And I think being a good leader, she could go down as the all-time greatest female running athlete and greatest Marion Giant ever Like.
Speaker 2:Ultimately, that's the impact you can have being able to be a leader in that environment could be really beneficial, uh, for her. Um, and you know, I think, depending on the kid, some kids will thrive in in that world. There would still be competition, I'll be at not as consistent, you know, they'd like a Laura Bruns, like Laura was pretty freaking dominant and she had, you know, a couple of rivals at the state level. You know four or five other girls, but you know, if it was an NCC meet, in that, in that conference, she probably won, and probably by a lot. Um, so you know, I think it depends on the kid.
Speaker 2:I think I could see that being positive for her, because what I fear now and I think one of the things that I, when I was talking about that meet the other day, one of the things that and granted, she's in sixth grade, but you know those four or five other girls that were running with her in this run club, if she's not performing in that upper echelon level, I think kids tend to. Not, they don't understand what we understand. Which is the best player doesn't always make the best coach or the best leader, but I think at that age everybody looks to the best for that leadership and guidance regardless, so for me it would potentially be a little bit different. We'll see how things shake out, but I've already seen some shifts so it's gonna be interesting to work through things Again. Being a varsity runner in Hamilton County in middle school in sixth grade is a pretty cool accomplishment.
Speaker 1:And I'm upset with myself, frankly, for even expecting more. You know, the one thing I would say about specialization that's interesting is specialization doesn't necessarily mean you can't play other sports. It just means that you're putting a certain amount of effort into one sport. I mean and I think that's where it gets overdone and when you demonize some of these things it's well-earned, because you have parents now who are homeschooling their kids for sports reasons. They are soccer.
Speaker 1:Indy Prime School, indy Premier has an academy where they're like a couple hours here and then they go to school for a couple hours, yeah yeah, so I think that there's. So, yeah, there's actual, it's another step, actual institutions that are doing that, and then homeschooling as well is happening you know, so kids have which. If that helps a kid achieve their dream, then so be it right. Sure.
Speaker 2:If that's what they want.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if that's what they want. Now, at that point, you're putting a lot of eggs in a basket. Now, if you feel like, though you're they're getting their social skills and they're getting their discipline through that and you're able, they're able to teach the life skills, right, we're talking about the boxes, right, and you know, even if they don't make it, you might argue that they're not going to be too far behind, uh, in any capacity, even if they don't make it professionally, because obviously, the bet that anyone's going to make it professionally is going to be a you're probably not going to be greater than a 50 50. But, um, can we talk about this from a different country perspective? Because I mean, doesn't I don't remember if it's japan or china, where they specialize and put kids in spots really young, and they find out, they take tests and they're like, okay, you're doing this and you go there and that's what you have to do. Talk to me about your thoughts on that. I don't know how much of that is a dictatorship versus, but it's more so like this is what you're going to do, and especially when it comes to, like Olympic stuff, like they put them in there because they want to win the Olympics. So it's very much driven, maybe out of your control driven.
Speaker 1:But what are your thoughts on that? I think it's probably, having been over there a couple of times and learning and understanding that culture, it's a very obedient culture and so, um, that is a little bit just built into the nature. They like to please and and uh, I think there there are certainly some sad parts about that and I am absolutely sure there are aspects of that that kids are probably put through some pretty devastating situations for the sake of the, you know, broader countries or governmental perspective, how they're viewed athletically, you know, and how well they're doing in some of the top sports. But I would also say it is probably, you know, those kids. There's probably an aspect, aspects of that that they enjoy and that are positive. For, again, it's a very obedient culture. They're being asked to do something, they're excelling at something, they're doing well, they're performing. That would be my take on it. It's a little bit of a contrarian view.
Speaker 2:I will take this towards East Africa and that world because that is out of necessity, right, like they are starting, they're running to school and home at four because that's the only option, which is it's starting, you know, in that thing at a young age. That always brings up a topic, that that always brings up a topic that we've discussed, that I think there's an element here which is interesting and this is a really deep rabbit hole to go down and there's a lot of layers here. But you want to talk about developing a mentality like if it's your only way out and it's a part of your necessary existence, and like for me and that I think delivers more prolific results than anything else. I think, you see, like you talk about people leaving smaller towns to go to bigger schools, because in a lot of instances you look at a lot of these professional athletes. That's it my way out.
Speaker 2:Because here's what's happened at the high school level now I think it was two years ago indiana, mr, football went like d2. Because what's happened with nil and now people being able to pay? Yeah, right, is the whole juco thing right? Why in the hell would I take a kid from any school outside of a carmel or a brownsburg. That's 6a, that you know. Their offensive line goes six, seven, three hundred pounds across.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to take somebody from Marion. I'm going to take a guy who's played JUCO who still has eligibility left, or I'm going to take a guy who's played at one of these giant schools that could compete at a national level. So if I'm somebody in a smaller town and I've been gifted with this athletic ability and I think you said earlier about Marion genetically I think genetically Marion is probably more condensed than Hamilton County ever had a chance of being, because we've seen the talent that's come out of this town given its size over the years. So I mean this town genetically is probably in the top couple percentage points in the country and just as far as it's conservative. If that's your only way out, then I get it. You got to go to Carmel, you got to go to HSC or Fishers or Noblesville or whatever, because if you don't it's going to be a much more difficult road to navigate because of the way that college sports has changed over the years.
Speaker 1:Isn't that fascinating that, and I'm pretty sure this is correct. But I'm going to just preface this. I believe kids now both basketball and football can go play in an NIAA-level league and still transfer to the NCAA, and for four years. Instead of you getting an 18 year old, purdue can pick up a 22 year old from Indiana Wesleyan University that's already matured and filled out and played four years of basketball and have four years of eligibility. That's real, that's real, absolutely real.
Speaker 1:Like they, they, so they technically could play college for eight years, maybe 26 yeah, now you can't do that eight years in the NCAA, but you could play in a different division and it'll transfer over. So to your point, you've got that going. And then you got the NIL, where people are making more money, like especially in women's sports, are making more money in college than they do maybe in the WNBA outside of endorsements. So there's those. It's like you're right when you think about being the most elite person coming out of and there's always the cooper flags of the world which are 28 million dollars yeah, and I help that come out and they're they're just freaks and they're gonna always rise to the top and they'll play college for a year and they'll go to the nba.
Speaker 1:But that's your point. Zero, zero, zero, one percent. So it makes it even harder. Now we had a friend. That same thing happened where he ended up. You know he's playing at purdue now, um, but it was really hard to get colleges to come and look at you because they'd rather fill the team with jucos that are a 22 year old and 18 year old way different in body structure. Yeah, you've got to be an absolute freak.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, or, and you see that too, like carmel has dudes that are like seventh on their roster, that are going d1, when guys that are like the stars of some of these other 3a schools are going in aia. Yeah, because they know that. Okay, this school has this crazy pedigree and they're getting people from all over the state and you can't teach six, seven, three, forty, five running a five, one, four, like you can't teach that. Unfortunately, you can teach playbooks and and schemes and things like that.
Speaker 1:So it's well, and some of that it boils down to and back to. We've talked about this. A lot is just the structure of the environment you think about.
Speaker 1:A tony sharon was solid muscle could run the 40 and four flat probably and then he could stand there and look at you and just do a standing backflip, like the athleticism and strength of some of those Marion athletes. And I look at it now and it's like with a little bit of infrastructure in place, I think our kids, we can create a much more competitive environment. But part of it is is is they've got to want it and they've got to want to put the work in and someone's got to want to put in the work from an adult level. So you know what that? That last piece is really interesting because I had a unique opportunity to caddy in the pro-am of the recent live golf event this past week and one of the guys was talking about community. I was talking to him about Noah a little bit and he also, while referencing the fact that he's seen a ton of father-son relationships destroyed referencing the fact that he's seen a ton of father-son relationships destroyed and to be mindful of that, he talked about how important community was, and it was probably the fifth time I'd heard that, but it just hit me different, coming from someone who's been around the game at the highest level for the longest time that one of the most important things that you could possibly have in terms of a predictor and or input to excelling as an athlete is a community of like-minded kids at the same age that are doing the same thing.
Speaker 1:I continue, you know I go back to Noah, but it is a continued challenge to get him out there and practicing with a level of get him out there and practicing with a level of intentionality. Just three nights ago he went over there at six o'clock kind of dragging and his two buddies were over there, river and Sawyer. It's 8.40. I'm in the parking lot and he's coming over to the fence saying, hey, can we just play for 15 more minutes? I mean, they're doing chipping competitions, they're doing putting competitions, they're having fun, they're challenging each other, they're they're they're turning on different parts of the brain that aren't going to engage on your own or in kind of an isolated setting. So they're not only enjoying it so much but they're pushing themselves to, you know, a level of precision so they can beat each other out.
Speaker 1:If you can have that day in and day out, I think the value of that is incredible and it's so, so, so hard to find and in some cases it's got to be manufactured. But I think that is a hugely underrated element of long-term success athletically is having that community that wants to achieve at the highest levels. That you do, and I'll tell you that hits home with me because Hadley's passion and desire for soccer is because there was a few parents that loved soccer, that brought these girls together at a young age and built this. The parents built the environment right. The parents are the ones that started it and now, like these girls, are all great friends and they love coming together. And you're exactly right, it's like you create that. That's the momentum they need. But it was manufactured and I think sometimes it can be by the system or the program.
Speaker 1:Um, like I know you do, some is it body and body and training yeah, like it's manufactured by a group of people and then the parents all kind of buy into the system and then over time that will create a special team right, like you want to have a special team run through a school or do something, you get a group of parents behind it that are committed to it. Um, absolutely, I agree a thousand percent with that. It's a huge advantage and it's a um. It makes all the difference in the world for the kids and their willingness to want to play, cause I don't even feel like they're. They're actually getting after. It's fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's one of those extra pieces that you know again, the T, the teamwork aspect and being learning to work and be part of a team, one of those secondary benefits, and a lot of times that is facilitated by the parents or if you do have really good coaches, and that's a whole other ballgame. And I think that goes back to the conversation we were having about rec versus these other tiers of things. A lot of these programs they're paid coaches and they've spent their lives around the sport or they're doing this on the side. They coach at a college level in a different capacity and then they also help these kids and so they bring a lot of that knowledge and structure and strategy and and and direction to the kids at that level. And so I think that's a benefit of kind of you know down where we are versus you know a lot of rec has become.
Speaker 2:Having been part of these programs and Tara and I actually had quite the interesting conversation the other day it's just you also begin to appreciate the structure of these programs, like these more intense programs. Uh, having been in Hoosier FC and I know Oliver's there now on, time is late, right, so like you are two games 20 minutes ahead of time. You're warming up 20 minutes Games start within you know two to three minutes of when they're going to start. They're over within two to three minutes of when they were supposed to finish versus. I've experienced this other league recently where the coach is walking up to the game as it's starting.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I'm losing it, you know. But like he's a volunteer, whatever, volunteer, whatever, and, and you know, nobody knows what field we're on and no practices at five and people are 10 and 15 minutes late and so, um, you know, that's another tiny little nuanced benefit to some of these leagues that are a little bit there's, that there's discipline in that regard as well, you know, with with their, uh, their skills and drills training. I've talked to you guys in nauseam about that and you've experienced it firsthand. You show up on time, you show up in your practice jersey, with it tucked in, and you do it this way and if you don't, it's pushups, it's being singled out, it's whatever, whatever. That may seem like a little bit much, a little too militaristic for people, but it does benefit my mind.
Speaker 1:Where do you guys rank sports? Yeah, benefit in my mind. Where do you guys rank sports? Billions of dollars is put into you sports. I mean Grand Park and just it's become. Families are spending 10, 15. And it's not just sports, it's cheerleading, it's dance. Sorry, I said that as if cheerleading wasn't a sport or dance wasn't a sport. They're all sports. They're extracurricular activities. It's more so for us who have kids in all walks of life and all different things like how do you prioritize the importance of sports and how, if you were to rank like education, sports, faith, like all the different things that are important in your family, where do you rank sports and does that align with where you spend your money?
Speaker 2:Dude, I heard something.
Speaker 1:Or your time.
Speaker 2:Speaking of other things, I just have to throw this out there. I was talking to a lady who had a good friend who got really deep into competitive dance and their yearly their last yearly bill was $41,000. We also have a friend who has a daughter who is in very, very high-level dance. She's in a school that focuses on dance and she has a friend that travels to New York on a weekly basis for class from Los Angeles. Like you want to talk about investments and stuff, I do think it's potentially, if you're being realistic about it, for me I'm investing my time in any area that I see that can best prepare them for being a contributing member of society that lives a fulfilled life. If, for instance, I'm trying to be as well-rounded as I can and focus on all the things, but I'm just trying to keep my ear to the ground, understand what drives them, find where their passions are, and if I need to go through this pinhole, like if nothing else is hitting but sports and I can use that and I can get through there and then help expose them spiritually and educationally, then we're going to go that route and we're going to invest there. You know, I'm looking for just ways to help them gain fulfillment.
Speaker 2:I mean, you said cheerleading. It is extraordinarily expensive. It is by both. My other kids play soccer and run and it is what they cost combined times two for my other one to do cheer. But it is such a confidence builder. It is really helping her understand teamwork. And for cheer, what's crazy about that? From a discipline and consistency perspective, you can't miss. You get two practices a year because if you have 30 girls and you're doing this routine and stunts, you can't not be there. You can't just go six months into season. You can't just go tap some random girl to fill in for a routine. You've been practicing for six months. So it teaches consistency and things like that and they're you know, talk about full body, uh, health, all of the different things they're doing from a fitness perspective. So you know it seems to be working and it's an environment, unlike school, where you have a little bit more visibility into and you can feel like you're a little bit more a part of. So I think it maybe alleviates a little bit of anxiety for parents.
Speaker 2:I can go watch how things are going at a soccer practice. I can watch how my son or daughter's executing and figure out. You know we've had this conversation. But miles, it's effort, right. Things are going into soccer practice. I can watch how my son or daughter's executing and and figure out. You know we've had this conversation, but miles, it's effort, right. So that's a very simple message to him Effort, effort, effort, effort, effort. As opposed to yelling and screaming. But I feel like at least I know. I don't know what's going on in school, I just hear and a little bit more trust there.
Speaker 1:But that's kind of my take on the whole thing. What's your answer to that question? I would say sports is top three for us as a family. I think there's things that, if I answer it based on where I spend my time, I mean outside of the kids, spending time in school we spend more of our time chasing around sports than anything else we do. I mean, yeah, we go to church on Sundays and we pray and that's a part of our life. But if we base it off of time and resources and money, that is where we spend arguably most of our time as a family outside of the school system. So I think there's where I would like to say it and then, if I vote with my time and money, it is in sports. So that's how to answer it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would agree with that. I think it's a borderline, the focal point outside of school. We academics are still pretty heavy for us, but I would say it's split there. Um, it's become kind of its own idol. Uh, if we put the effort we put into athletic development and spiritual development, it'd probably be a lot more fulfilling. And some of that I don't want to be, some of that's difficult because, like you said, I don't necessarily know if I have the resources to figure out how to have meaningful spiritual development for multiple hours a day, but I think I am probably a product of the environment of youth sports being worshiped In a sense.
Speaker 1:But to your point. I just want to add to your point. It can want to add to your point. It can check a lot of boxes and there's a lot of there's mindset training and other things.
Speaker 1:There's the discipline training, there's the social training, there's the high, there's the effort, precision type, effort, delayed gratification. I mean there is just an incredible number of life lessons that can be learned. So I want to be so apologetic for it that it's like I mean to your point when you talk about contributing members of society like it is, it's great.
Speaker 2:The infrastructure is there, we might as well take advantage of it. I mean, how often can you go on a vacation We'll just talk about travel, sports where you get to do something you love. You get to be with your friends, that you're with six to seven hours a week and do something together. You get to go and explore an area of the country you may have never gone before, like you're talking about. You try to do that outside of it. You got to rile up families. The kids may not all get along, they may be different ages.
Speaker 2:Then you've got to figure out where you're going to go and then some people are going to like the stuff you're doing, some people are not going to like the stuff you're doing and there's going to be complaining there with these, with these other things in place, like all of these like-minded people to your point earlier going somewhere to do something they do well together, that they have an aptitude for, and I think that's super fulfilling. It's like when we go and we do Ragnar's, we've got a bunch of like-minded people that are going to go do something hard together and because the infrastructure is there, it's already predetermined what the experience is going to be like. There's not a lot of variables. So I think you know it's definitely um there's the negatives to it. You're constantly wondering um how much much of it is. Is this financial profit model right? How much of it is it's?
Speaker 2:a huge business it is a huge business and how much of it is like, is it detrimental to keep it open? To keep everything open for everyone? Like that's a very weird statement to make, and I say that like you know another thing about Hamilton County, I think two years ago Carmel's marching band was number one in the country, because of course it was. And so, like, do you want to open everything up to everyone just to take their money, or do you want to keep it at a point where, hey, maybe this isn't for you, but maybe you'd be amazing, you know, like that's an interesting. That's an interesting because from a rec perspective, you want everything open to everybody, always.
Speaker 2:At least to try right, cause you don't know if it's for you or not for you until you try it.
Speaker 1:That's the. There's gotta be an entry level at some age. And probably the harder part is do you have an entry level at all ages? If someone's never played soccer and they want to try it at age 13, it becomes a problem versus no one's ever played soccer and they want to play it at eight.
Speaker 1:There's more entry level people at eight than there are 13. But I think you want people to have. In our area it's kind of the opposite. We don't have the resources and we're scholarshiping a lot of kids into a lot of different things or they're selling you know different um things in order to raise enough money to play. But, um, I think that's kind of the beauty in it is like everyone's got to figure that out and I don't care as much that people are making money off of it, as long as the system's good and they're having a great experience. I think people are always going to find ways to make money and to build systems.
Speaker 1:So I think the hardest thing is to just not lose perspective in this sort of environment, because the intensity and the energy and the environment can become overwhelming, where you find yourself at times thinking, if you know, I've had to pull myself out of places, dark places, where I'm, like you know, borderline panicking that you know one of my kids isn't going to achieve this certain level of success in a sport, when the reality is I don't want to say their level of achievement is going to have no impact or is going to be completely indifferent to whether or not.
Speaker 1:They turn out to be a contributing member of society. But I think there are times where it's easy to get caught up, and part of that is because the investment we put in it the more investment we put in, I think, there's, the more risk that we lose perspective of what the real value and importance is and how much. You know. Whether Noah plays number two, number five or JV on the Guerin golf team or number one like I don't know, that that's going to drastically change his life. I mean, maybe if he plays college, you know, could he get a scholarship and go to. You know, I mean maybe. But even then, like, is that going to change how he turns out as a human being in a contributing member society? I don't know. So I think that's the tough thing. I think there's a lot of really positive things that can come from it, but you've got to make sure you don't lose perspective, and that's easier said than done.
Speaker 2:The bigger fear for me is that, like you know, when I was thinking about that meat is I don't you don't want them to lose it Meaning, like you know, you've helped them put the kindling down and kind of create this fire and excitement for something. And a lot of times, you know you, you forget how you, we don't have immediate remembrance. Back to how our brains function as children. You know. Now we know that the sports we're involved in, um, I don't need to win everything. I love this. Like I'm gonna do this until I'm 70 and I.
Speaker 2:The things I love about it are exploration we've talked about it again exploration and putting on things, events within my area of passion, and all of these different things.
Speaker 2:I love being competitive and being able to go out there and test my limits, um, you know. But for me, I see the dejectedness after a performance where she felt like maybe she didn't leave it all out there, it didn't do well, and like the concern is oh, no, you know, is this? Is this fire going to go out? Are they not going to want to do this anymore? They've put a lot of time and effort in it and again, it's not the end of the world, but you see the benefits of finding something you love and doing it. You know, I'm seeing she's starting to putter with soccer because they got a new coach and things are familiar and she's not as excited about it as she was last year and and so I know you've dealt with this at a couple different levels with with your kids and it's like, oh man, if, if this fire goes out, what is well? I mean, I guess you can talk about that. What do you replace it with?
Speaker 1:yeah, I mean that's getting them into something, which you guys have done really well. That that I've struggled with is getting your kids and getting that foundation and getting that fire lit and getting that passion. There is something that I haven't been super good at coaching them through some of those early phases and I have one that's really stuck through things and the youngest one's 2BD but it has been a challenge to get them in the right spots and to where they've wanted to have the motivation to kind of go after things. So, um, I think there's a lot of great, great lessons to be learned and, uh, having them out there learning those lessons, I think is important. It's okay to fail. If you work hard at something it's going to. You need to see how that translate and just like for them to have that natural, organic experience of what it's kind of a microcosm of life, right, I mean, at the end of the day, we are continuing to evolve and we're hoping that the lessons they've learned they're going to apply to a situation later in life. They get to a job, they've got a deadline, they've got a pulling all-nighter. They know what that looks like. They give a presentation, they know what it looks like and they use that same skill set to persevere in other areas of life.
Speaker 1:I've got one question I want to ask you both. As I mentioned earlier, I think specialization doesn't necessarily mean you have to put, you have to stop doing other sports, but you better be putting in hundreds of hours in the sport that you're specializing in, which brings up an interesting question whether this is summer or during the school year, like I'm guessing, noah is actually, as we've talked about, very disciplined. He's tracking all his stuff. He's trying to get 500 hours of basketball and 300 hours of golf in this year. Those are like two of his goals, which is a significant amount of time. Not as much when you think of there's a lot of hours in the summer and you go to camps for eight hours a day, but it's still a substantial amount of time. My question to you guys is it starts to fill the schedules and every night coming over to school, there's typically one sporting event, sometimes two, for somewhere between an hour and to an hour and a half downtime.
Speaker 1:How important is downtime for kids? Because I think this correlates directly to kind of how much you can specialize in or to what extent is it something where downtime is so so is it? Is it important and if so, to what extent? Like, how, how how much downtime is important? Is it one of those things where, hey, it's, there's nothing wrong with them just being busy go to school, go to the sports, do the things? Come home, have a few minutes with the family, you know, eat dinner, whatever, and go to bed. Or is it like no, they really need a certain 30 minutes, 60 minutes, 90 minutes of downtime just to kind of unwind or whatever?
Speaker 1:Like what's your guys' perspective on that? Family-wise, we found, on the kids get home after school, they like to have a little bit of time, like before they start homework, before they do things, or if they're nailing two practices in a row and they get back from that, they're smoked and they just want to have some downtime. So downtime could mean playing cards with the family. Downtime could mean spending half an hour on their phone, could be watching a TV show, but I believe it's okay to have some unstructured time. That's what I'll call it unstructured time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and there's some studies out there I've heard, you know. You hear when people talk about children in sports and that decompression time to address things or to talk about that or to talk about prior experiences, if it was a match or a game or something to that effect. But like we're the same way Right now, it's been a very stressful month for Kay. She's at brand brand new middle school. She went from a class of you know, 100 kids to a class of 700 kids or whatever, or 600 kids. A big new school, new experiences, new social. Oh and, by the way, cross country practice starts at 340. She goes straight to soccer, which ends at 7.
Speaker 2:Monday, tuesday, wednesday, so it's when she comes home. I kind of just do whatever. You're going to eat dinner, it's going to take 30 minutes and then you have an hour to kind of whatever. If you want to talk to your friends on your phone, I'm going to let you be, because you've been in a structured high stress environment since 8am this morning and it's almost 8 pm. And then I try personally on her off days, which she still has, cross Thursday and Friday, to give her a little bit of it. But on those like, there are no, in our house, like lazy days Very rarely is there a oh yeah, it's Saturday, because there's always. You know, you're going to go to your brother's games or your sister's cheer comp or whatever. There are very. The last time I told Kay she was lazy, she went out that night and ran 12 miles. So she responded in a way that made me proud.
Speaker 2:But, there's not a lot of lazy days, but there's definitely downtime um for at least an hour, if we can uh every day.
Speaker 1:Pretty consistent, okay, well, um, that's a wrap. We we kind of started with multi-sport versus specialized, but as usual, we go down lots of rabbit holes. Personal experiences, I think, take us through a lot of different you know thoughts and feelings as we approach that, but ultimately we all believe that sports provide a great infrastructure to learn, to build social skills, to grow, and it's a very important part of all of our lives. So thanks for tuning in and we look forward to seeing you next time.