The Dailey Edge Podcast
Join hosts Trent, TJ, and Todd Dailey as they explore the intersections of technology, culture, fitness, and personal growth. Through engaging discussions and personal anecdotes, the trio dives into topics ranging from childhood gaming nostalgia and cutting-edge fitness tech to the pursuit of happiness and lifestyle choices. Whether reminiscing about epic gaming marathons, sharing tips for staying on the forefront of fitness trends, or unraveling the complexities of modern life, The Dailey Edge delivers thoughtful insights, lively debates, and relatable stories for listeners of all walks of life.
The Dailey Edge Podcast
🎙️Episode 25: ADHD: From School Struggles to Workplace Superpowers🎙️
We explore the complex realities of ADHD, sharing personal experiences from medication in childhood to workplace adaptations as adults.
• ADHD often manifests as difficulty focusing on uninteresting tasks while having the ability to hyperfocus on engaging activities
• The traditional education system may not accommodate different attention styles, creating challenges for students with ADHD
• Medication can help manage symptoms but may become a "crutch" that prevents developing important coping skills
• ADHD traits resemble a "hunter-gatherer mind" - constantly scanning for interesting stimuli before locking in on targets
• Alternative education approaches like homeschooling can allow for more customized, interest-driven learning
• Adults with ADHD often find success by building careers and environments that work with their attention patterns
• The key to supporting those with ADHD is thoughtfulness, awareness, and willingness to try different approaches
• What seems like a deficit in one environment can become a superpower in the right context
• Physical activity and balancing energy expenditure plays an important role in managing ADHD symptoms
Welcome to the Daily Edge, where we bring you the latest insights, opinions and thought-provoking conversations to give you that competitive edge in life, business and beyond. Let's go, welcome back to the Daily Edge. As always, I'm here with my brothers, tj Daily and Todd Daily. Today is going to be fun. We have an interesting topic that hits close to home for all of us and we're finding that maybe it's genetics, as it trickles down into our kids as well.
Speaker 1:We're going to talk about ADHD. We're going to talk about ADHD, attention deficit, hyperactivity disorder and this is something that I believe I'm going to probably kick it over to TJ, because he was probably the poster child, one of the first. He was on some Ritalin back in the 80s and so he has kind of struggled with this, probably at a different level than most of us, but there's some spectrum that we believe everyone has a certain level of ADHD. I'm experiencing this with some of my kids. So we're going to just spend today talking about how this has impacted our life, some of the pros and cons, some of our journey, because I believe this is very, very prevalent in a lot of people's lives, whether you know it or not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I'll start and kind of share some of my experience and let you guys kind of react to that, because I've developed very strong opinions about this over the years, having dealt with it to the level. So kind of explain where this started. When I was younger second or third grade, probably second grade our mom started to notice and, just so you know, our mother was a school guidance counselor, director of guidance, so she has quite a bit of schooling as it relates to those. You know those particular topics. So she's acute. She was acutely aware of what was it. She was a school teacher as well, so she became acutely aware kind of of how I was struggling it began with we would back in. I guess this would be like 1986, 87. We were getting homework and it was taking me two or three hours a night in third grade to do homework. We would sit at the table and I remember it actually sitting at the table just every five minutes hey, pay attention, we got to finish this, pay attention, we got to finish this.
Speaker 2:Took me, got diagnosed, started Ritalin, I think, in fourth grade, third or fourth grade, so right around that same time it got better a little bit, but I was more driven by other things, right. So when goals were set out for me or told I couldn't do something in specific, that was kind of what drove me. I think in fifth grade the teacher there really kind of did bend over backwards to help me make things interesting, but it was still a struggle. I tested well, I did very poorly in school from a grade perspective when I graduated or got graduated when I left middle school, elementary, you know. Luckily, in middle school I was at a school where I had a class of 12. So we've got a lot of hands-on attention there, which I think helped out a lot. And because and this is positive and negative because our parents were so involved in the school, I got a lot of breaks. Uh, our dad was on the school board, had keys to the school and so three times a week they were going to the school to get things that I forgot. And I don't know necessarily if that I mean. I appreciate it now looking back, but I don't know if it taught me the lessons that I needed to learn the hard way, but it got a lot of like special attention.
Speaker 2:Mom was teaching at the school. When I was there and transitioned to high school I was put on Prozac For those parents going out going through it you know we talk about this laughingly, but we will look back. Especially right after graduating high school we would sit down here in the basement me, trenton Todd and our friends and we would grab my stack of referrals and we would read through a hundred, probably, probably over a hundred referrals that I accumulated over four years and it was what you know. If you're really frustrated with your kid, it was those types of things, right. It was like I just get up and walk out of class because I was bored and I just felt like walking out of class and I felt empowered because I had. And this is where my strong opinion develops on ADHD. I had a crutch right.
Speaker 2:I was on Prozac for high school and mom again was very integrated in the teaching community because she taught in Marion Community School. So she knew a lot of those people and a lot of them were her friends. And I found out fairly early on that if I was having trouble or if I wanted to be disruptive, all I would have to say was, hey, I forgot my medicine and I was almost absolved of any wrongdoing. And I think you become viewed as you get a new bar set for you which, again, like at the time, great, but I don't know how well that benefited me. Um, you know, when I ended up going to college, but anyways, you know, there was a lot of um there. There were some, there were some good things but there were some bad things.
Speaker 2:I do think that when I was on the Prozac, especially during the day when it was meant to be effective, it dulled my experience. It was very, I can remember, feeling lethargic and kind of out of it and whatever. And then, as it wore off, as the day went on, um, you know, especially coming after school, much more vibrant, much more engaged, much more excited. But you know, for me, you know, I really think, because I think a lot of people, and not just ADHD people, I think people in general you're pretty intelligent when you feel, when you figure out that you can utilize this as a justification for behaving however you want to behave.
Speaker 2:You know, I spent 20% of high school and in-school suspension. Again, just, I wasn't bad, I wasn't, you know, doing things that were classified as illegal. I just, you know, had these urges and wanted to get away with them and, and, and was able to, partially because of the situation I was put in. But uh, you know that that's through high school. We could talk about um the other parts of life and how things shifted for me once we we get get there, but that was. That's kind of my experience.
Speaker 1:Let's let's stay in school, because I think we spent a little time on this and I don't know how deep we want to go. But school as it stands today was developed in the 50s 60s. What's the traditional school system? When did that?
Speaker 2:We looked that up, we did, we looked it up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so the school system has been around. Arguably it's called 100 years. Yeah, let's say it's 100 years. In a similar fashion, teaching similar stuff, right, like you could say, at the core, math, um, english, uh, language arts, is all kind of some form of science, has always been. History has kind of been at the forefront, um, and it was built to make sure that people had basic, uh, the basic skills to survive, right, um, and then, you know, it's probably developed a little bit as things have gone on to where it's a little more specialized and there's, you know, different levels of of education 150 years give or or take I mean.
Speaker 1:So there was religious education younger, but late 1800s it started to formalize public education and then, into the early 1900s, high schools and things.
Speaker 1:So 150 years, and arguably, my guess is, throughout the last 150 years, there's always been a group, if not a large group, of people that struggle with the structure, and I don't know going back how long. You know, here in the state of Indiana, kids have to go to school 180 days a year, which is a lot, and they have to meet certain requirements and so forth and so on. So I don't know how that's evolved, but we are putting our kids in an environment and teaching them topics that we have forever. Do you guys feel like that is playing a role with everything else that's developed? And arguably there's so many other things now that you get dopamine hits immediately that are more exciting versus what they're doing in school? And you talked about focus, and so I'm just curious how you guys process is having a kid, and I will say boys in general seem to be a little more hyperactive or a little bit more. They struggle more to sit down, and this isn't exclusive to boys, because I know that there's girls out there that are the same way. Do we feel like that's the right environment, um, to put them in, because I know there are different schools that are super active where they go out and they, they play outside half the day. I'm just curious on uh, on your guys take on that I think the public school system has from. So we're at a war for our attention. We've talked about that for a long time. We're in an attention war era or economy. Um, I would say the public school system is bringing a knife to a gunfight with respect to kids attention. I mean, I think that's the reality of it anymore. I think you know I heard someone talk about this.
Speaker 1:I've done read quite a bit on dopamine and desensitization and different things that's happening, and one of the points that they talked about was one of the most. You know you go back a few hundred years. One of the most engaging things exciting, engaging, like captivating things was someone telling a story with someone sitting around some sort of whatever and someone telling a story or reading a book. Uh, and that was just like incredibly captivating for the mind. That doesn't hold true anymore With screens and video content and that sort of thing. Obviously there's this relativity and relatively, that is probably I would say you've got really good storytellers out there in person who can absolutely still do that. But I think from reading a book or following those sorts of things. The dopamine hits that you get from that, relative to what you're typically going through in a school day, is vastly different, and I think they're having a very hard time competing for kids' attention for sure.
Speaker 2:I think it's interesting, though, like you expound on this before I jump in, you have kids, especially Noah, who are relatively very academically dialed and successful. I mean I would say it's traditional on steroids. So, like you know, you don't do I mean like talk about that a little bit because you know.
Speaker 1:Tell me more Like what would you? What in particular would you like me to dive into?
Speaker 2:just just, you know you talk about that bringing a knife to a gunfight, but yet your son is succeeding in in that scenario. So, like what you know, you and your wife are both very successful academically going. You know both having your mbas, both going to notre dame and, like she went to, you went to iu and then you guys got your mbas to Notre Dame. You went to IU and then you guys got your MBAs like. Or you went to Purdue and then you guys got your MBAs at IUPUI when it existed or wherever you did. I don't remember IU, but anyways, like traditionally successful in that academic environment, it may have been hard, it may have not been hard. And then having kids that are also successful I don't know how Oliver, I mean I know Oliver is extremely smart. I don't know if he's as disciplined as Noah is in the classroom, but like you know how do you get there?
Speaker 1:I don't know. I can't honestly can't, take full credit for that and I will say the school system does a really good job with that engagement aspect of it. I think, noah, it benefits from his discipline. I think he is very disciplined and he can overcome the boredom I think both of them do this comes into. I don't know if you guys have ever read Dan Pink's book about autonomy, mastery and purpose, but they both excel in certain subjects that I think they find much more interesting than others and you've actually seen that in their testing scores. You've actually seen quite a bit of deviation in some of the subjects that they're very interested in, like math, for example. But I would say discipline is a big part of that and I think the school system does a really good job of trying to make things interesting is a big part of that, and I think the school system does a really good job of trying to make things interesting.
Speaker 1:The other thing that we have done now I don't know, at least within the scope of that school day, I think the good news for them and I don't know if this is just how they're wired they have a short-term memory. So in the school day they don't have any screens competing for their attention in that particular time. So I think they want to do well enough academically. I think competitiveness is probably another thing that's at play. That kind of keeps them engaged. So there's other little factors that I think are probably pooling together. For a good portion of the year we do restrict screens fairly heavily. I would say the winter months they do a little bit, but we go. We're completely screen dry in the spring, summer and fall. So I would like to think that that plays into it a little bit. But yeah, I guess those are just a little high-level thoughts.
Speaker 2:I think that speaks to a couple of points that I wanted to tackle. When you talk about discipline and when I talk about my personal experience, that was an area that I wasn't forced at that point in time in my life to explore, which is, I think, a downfall of having that crutch Like, oh yeah, I don't need to be disciplined, really at all. Luckily for me and you know I think this is another weird thing to think about when I got to high school you know we were talking prior to this podcast about hyperfixation and I'd been hyperfixated on electronics and technology since I was a kid. You know we talk about taking apart an Apple IIc when I was in fourth grade and putting it back together.
Speaker 2:Whatever Built an MP3 player for my car a decade before they were publicly available, like 96 or something. But I became enthralled with computers and luckily that led me on a path that gave me a career at Microsoft and you know, because it was intriguing, and I think that we're in this situation today where there are public school teachers. I've mentioned this guy in the past. His name is Mr Donner.
Speaker 1:Then he was.
Speaker 2:Kay's fourth grade teacher One of the best teachers in the entire school system, you know elementary, middle school, high school, you know is at the school six to seven days a week and is really passionate about it, and so you know. So I think for people with ADHD or parents dealing with kids that have, that one of the things you can do is it's imperative to help them reframe things in a way that is exciting and interesting to them. You talk about storytelling, and one of the most prevalent skill sets today is one of the skill sets we're much more exposed to now is storytelling, because when you look back in the 70s, you were buying books. Now you have these phenomenal storytellers in the forms of YouTubers online. They're able to take things that would have put you to sleep.
Speaker 2:I had a guy who was a teacher of mine who just didn't care. He was older. Care, he was older, and it wasn't that he didn't care in terms of like he wasn't a bad person, but you could tell he was at the point in his career where it's like just come in and just leave me alone. You know we're going to maybe talk about some things and do a couple standard tests, but like I'm kind of over this and there was nothing intriguing there. He was a history teacher.
Speaker 2:I find that stuff fascinating now, and I can watch videos on just about anything for hours, if the story's told in a way that is interesting to me. So I think that we're in this situation where, unfortunately, because of the way teachers are compensated and I don't want to put it all on that but these people that have this fascinating capability to tell these stories and make everything interesting aren't where they need to be, and they're on YouTube versus in the classroom. And somebody with ADHD probably has the ability to learn at a greater, with greater aptitude, than anybody else in the classroom. It just needs to be framed right, and then you get in these situations where you know then the solution is all right, well, let's put them in this other environment and potentially the person that's you know is is well, yeah.
Speaker 1:You're hitting on something that's really important, which is it's not only the, it's not only Trent. You, I think you alluded to the fact that the topic areas how relevant are they in terms of how usable those skills are and, tj, you're talking about the medium and the quality with which those topics are being conveyed are subpar. So really, we've got a couple of things here that I think are combining to be a major issue and kids are having trouble focusing because the topic areas are arguably becoming less and less relevant at a pretty rapid pace and the way it's delivered has not kept up with that of society, and it's tough. You're seeing the same thing. I think some of this is impacting spiritual lives as well. I think when you look at I'll speak to the Catholic mass it's the same Catholic mass that was a hundred years ago, other than the fact that it's now in our own language as opposed to in Latin. But you've got this that, relatively, is extremely boring, you know, relative to the other things that are competing for our attention. So I think both of those factors, in the school system particularly, are making it very difficult for kids to stay focused unless they have a very high discipline threshold to like just grind through it.
Speaker 1:In fact, I sent I'll just mention because I send noah quote of the day. I mentioned this in the past and school year started and he talked me into doing it again this year and the quote I sent him today is one of the most underrated skills you can learn is the ability to ignore your mood and stick with the plan. These aren aren't my own quotes, I just find them on social media or whatever, and I think that's what we're talking about here, and trying to figure out how to overcome the lack of interest or disinterest. It's going to be really interesting, I think, from a school system perspective. I think we talked about this in a prior podcast.
Speaker 1:That's what I took probably mostly from the school system is not the knowledge, the expertise or whatever. It's the discipline that it teaches you and or it weeds out those that aren't disciplined. So when someone's looking for someone to join their company or professional workforce, the reality is you're going to do shit that you don't like at your job. That's just part of it and your ability to actually stay disciplined and keep your head down through that. That, to me, is what the someone who has a high GPA or school system does not reflect their intelligence whatsoever. It reflects their discipline much more, or their their combination of discipline, with some of these attention deficit.
Speaker 2:I think the interesting thing is is that the younger you are, the more supplementation you probably need from a younger, or from an adult, or from a teacher to get you to the point. So, like you know, in kindergarten and first grade and second grade, discipline is not going to be a strength for you, but if you have somebody that's nurturing you, you know in in that way like hey, we're going to do a little bit of modification to this uh information to make it a little more interesting, but at the same time, you gotta, you gotta discipline yourselves and then, as time moves on, that balance shifts where, okay, now, as you get into four, five, six, seven, we're going to focus a little more on discipline and a little more, a little less, on making this interesting, or we're going to develop that skillset within you, and I think that's where it's it's interesting because, yeah, it's a.
Speaker 1:It's a really fine line that you mentioned. That just triggers quite a few thoughts of trying to keep it interesting and fun, because that is what is going to kind of promote long lifelong learning. Right and interest. Um, but it's tough to do in the certain areas of topics. But I'm dealing with that athletically with noah right now in golf. There's this aspect of training him to be disciplined and go out there and still stick to the plan and like go through the things to lower the scores and get where he wants to be. But at this age he can't afford for it to start to feel like a grind and not enjoy it or he will burn out and it is incredibly difficult. I'm struggling.
Speaker 1:Um, as I'm listening, it seems like and maybe you guys can help me reframe this that ADHD is tied to what's interesting and not interesting. Like, if you're not interested in it, then you have ADHD. What you're interested in and disinterested in on, like 100x. So if you're interested in this and not interested in this and you've got ADHD and that's a spectrum, right, it's not a black and white yes or no, but to the extent that you have ADHD, my interpretation of it and you guys can weigh in on this, not a medical professional at all but what I've read and experienced myself is you are either hyper interested or so disinterested you can't even begin to focus on it for a minute, as opposed to if you, let's just say, don't have any trace of adhd. You know those two things. You can still apply yourself in topics that you're disinterested in.
Speaker 2:This is interesting because, you know, this research is years and years and years ago and it may be a relevant analogy. It may not be, but this is when I was younger, right? So we're talking 40 years ago give or take, and mom had done some of the research on this and I remember her talking about hunter-gatherers give or take and mom had done some of the research on this and I remember her talking about hunter-gatherers and they would typically elicit this type of mental configuration. So when you're hunting an animal, you have to be aware of everything around you, and from somebody who's dealt with this at almost the highest level, I would classify myself there. You are scanning, looking for something interesting in the room. I remember telling mom in fourth, fifth grade I could hear every conversation. I'm not only hearing every conversation, I'm hearing the.
Speaker 2:We had those old wall heaters that made those weird sounds at St Paul. I'm listening to the wall heater, I'm listening to this person talk here, I'm seeing this person passing out, and so, as a hunter, I'm scanning, scanning, scanning, scanning, scanning, and then, when I see my prey, boom and you lock in. And you have to have the ability to lock in or you're not going to get food and you're going to die eventually. I'm seeing this with Miles. I've crossed my fingers that I wouldn't have any kids that had this type of struggle and we got an email the other day from Miles's teacher. They're doing NWEA, which is the public school testing, and the teacher says that it's typically taking the kids 40 to 50 minutes for English and 40 to 50 minutes to finish the math portion of these tests. Miles finished in 20 minutes and 11 minutes, to the point that they had him retested on the second one and my again, having gone through this, what he's doing is I want to be done first so I can find that thing that's interesting to me, and I remember having some of the similar tendencies, like wanting to turn my tests in first and one because I just want to get through this so I can find that thing.
Speaker 2:That's like engaging, um, and so I think to your point on it amplifying, like that it absolutely does. It's like I gotta find that thing. I gotta find that thing. I just want to get through this nonsense to find that thing that is going to give me this feeling of excitement. For us that had been video games after school or playing basketball or whatever it was, but but like I'm just here going through the motions, get me out, get me through this, um and and again, the more, the more you you get that crutch, um, and the more that people tell you you're ADHD and that it's this thing, and that you get this medicine and yada, yada, yada, the more for me, the more disruptive I became, because I knew I didn't have to.
Speaker 1:I'm special right, but you learned over time that you were manipulating situations and you knew that the medicine was not the answer that it was. Maybe it did help you narrow focus or take the edge off. But it's just interesting to me because there's kind of two things at play here, where we're trying to find ways to interest people in things that may or may not be as important as they once were. Right, like that's. Arguably one of the things is like should we still be trying to gauge people's interest in the topics that we're being taught now? Or sitting in a classroom for eight hours a day? Or like is that still the right approach? And, if it is, how are we navigating kids that are higher on the spectrum to be able to be successful in those environments? Because those are, I mean, I think those are both up for question. Right like the hunter-gatherer you would never medicate the hunter-gatherer. Right like that was a very important role, a very important person doing a very specific thing and, you know, dealing with kids that are that are also. You know my son just recently we have been having a lot of talks about this he said Dad, when I'm in the room and a conversation is happening, it's just like my mind is like branches it just keeps going and I'm like, oh, there's a, there's a, you know, and his ability, inability to focus, really has impeded him to be successful in a classroom where, when he is interested in something he can like, it's that hyper fixation he can lock in for long periods of time if it's interesting and, and so to me it's finding those things and it's got to be. Well, you can't just say the only thing that's interesting is video games. There's got to be other practical applications, because those there are certain things created to gather attention and I think those can be a detriment. But I mean, I think that's one of the most video games I think they've. They've done such an incredible job. It is one of the most.
Speaker 1:I would guess if you looked at production of dopamine in people playing video games on average versus other activities, it's got to be up there. I mean, we feel it when we start playing bellatro or one of those addicting games that we download, I mean you're, we're locked in more than anything else that we do, for whatever period of time until we break. That, I would say video games is right up there. Can you learn? So then, elon Musk, they started something called Synthesis and it's for kids. It's playing games to learn practical lessons and problem solving. Reasoning Is there and I had one kid that did it for quite some time and loved it and wants to do it again. Are there ways to teach critical skills problem solving? We've talked about the communication problem solving. Is there different ways to teach life skills that are engaging? That, um are maybe different than the way we're approaching it now?
Speaker 2:sure, I think the one thing you got to be careful of is losing the discipline side of it, because I think if everything's catered to you in a in a particular, you know, and maybe you, maybe you build discipline through sports and other things, and then you, you, you, you, you know, when it comes to education, you cause I think that's fascinating and I think that it's like, yeah, it's really unique, because it really just takes a person that has the aptitude and I'm talking about the person delivering the content to make it interesting for that individual.
Speaker 2:I don't, you know, and it's tough, right, Because if you look at certain educators and you think that, okay, maybe there's a skill set that goes along with it, you know they have to have the passion for education or at some point their drive is going to run out to curate content for whoever it is they're delivering this information to.
Speaker 2:And it's tough because I don't know how many people are out there and it's what a decision to make if you have a person that is in an environment where they're not doing well and you want to put them in an environment where the content is more curated for their absorption so that they can build knowledge on a particular topic. You know what a tough thing to do and to find somebody to facilitate that for you, whether it's you yourself or another teacher. So that's a really tough situation to be in. But I would say, yes, but you do want to figure out a way to work in discipline as well over time. Because I think you get to a point where, like you said, you're going to have stuff that you don't like to do at some point in time in your life, and if your entire life has been curated and you know so that, oh, if it's not fun or interesting, I'm not going to do it, or if it's not easy I'm not going to do it, Then I think there's a potential slippery slope there.
Speaker 1:I think this to me comes back to the and I agree with everything you said there. I think losing the discipline aspect of it's the risk. I think what's challenging and we just talked about this in our last episode, which is about it depends on the person. And it comes back to challenge skills balance and I think we've maybe talked about this briefly in prior episodes. But this challenge skills balance, this idea that when someone's learning or growing or developing a skill, whether it's sports, academically or otherwise, it's super important to be in this challenge skills balance arena where it's not so challenging that it feels completely out of reach and it's also not so easy that you're not seeing any right. If you sit someone that's doing algebra and you ask them to do, you know, addition problems, there's going to be an engagement issue there If you are also so from a discipline perspective. So to come to that, I think it comes into that challenge skills balance. So if someone like TJ has, let's just say, unmedicated in high school, uh, at that point in time for how he is wired, his ability to pay attention in school, given the, the way it's delivered and the topic areas, even if it was a little more relevant, then certainly wasn't super exciting or wasn't going to be something that was going to be leveraged on a day-to-day basis. It was out of his challenge skills balance. It was like so far beyond his wiring to be able to pay attention and navigate that.
Speaker 1:I think that's where you get certain kids that, either from a discipline and or a ADHD kind of spectrum combination. If it's out of their wheelhouse I think they're dead in the water. I think that's go back to your first question. I think that's probably still at least at this point in their academic development. Maybe my kids are in that range. It's like not super easy for them but it's achievable enough and I just think, depending on the person, the current public system could be great for forming discipline, building that skill, and it's within a chunk of kids' challenge skills ratios to build that. But there's a chunk of kids. It's not even reachable. How much of this? You heard Trump talk about the 1960s workout that he wants to put back in place.
Speaker 2:Oh, the presidential fitness test? Yeah, where?
Speaker 1:it's like you look and you see these videos and the guys were like they would do like 10 pull-ups and then they'd climb, they'd scale a wall. How much of this, if any, in your guys' opinion, ties back to energy? So like sitting in a classroom? I've heard people say it for years, like boys especially. You could argue all kids weren't meant to spend six hours of the eight hours a day sitting in a classroom. They're bent to be up, moving around. They're energetic, they need to get energy out and, boy, if they could get their energy out, then they have an easier time of focus. Do you believe any of this ties back to that energy level or is it just sheer discipline in your guys' opinion?
Speaker 2:I probably tend to agree with that a little bit, like I think that was a benefit of the Prozac. Is it removed, that desire to be energetic during the day? You know, there wasn't that like I need to get out and do this, and I think as you get older, obviously that subsides a little bit. But I don't I don't necessarily disagree and I think maybe it's it's changed a little bit in elementary school and the public side. For us down here I think they're doing a little more activity, especially, you know, kindergarten first, second grade. But yeah, I think that there's there's definitely a part of that where I think it could be more beneficial if it was a little bit more of a split. You know, like a three hours worth of activity versus four hours in the classroom. I don't know. Um, yeah, I don't know what your thoughts.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it makes it more difficult. I think it uh makes it adds another layer of discipline that you need because you're fighting natural instincts. I think, whether it's environmental factors or how we've wired and we've talked about this, the past too like we are wired for an environment that is so drastically different than the one that we're living in. It's not even funny, I mean. There's just fascinating thing after fascinating thing when you think about the way the you know the world that our brains evolved in and were wired for is 10,000 years ago and an environment where people were hunter gathering, where we were, you know, we had this kind of like. We were fearing, for everything was life or death, it was very survival mechanism. And now we're in this, at least in the united states, for most people in a completely different world, and it's so some of it manufactured.
Speaker 1:Let's pivot a little bit. You get out of school. School is arguably the hardest because when you're going through K through 12, you really don't have any control over your environment. Kids don't. Right Now we're adults. Right Now we're in the workforce. We get to make our own decisions. Like maybe you're like man, until I get my workout in in the morning, I can't sit down and do my work. Like maybe there's some of that.
Speaker 1:I believe that more adults are probably probably struggle with ADHD, but we have the ability to cope better because we somewhat can control our environments depending on your situation and your job.
Speaker 1:That's not probably relative for everyone, but I feel like, as my oldest has gone through this, I've been like and he was reading me some of the things and he's really been like dad I'm really struggling and I ignored it for a while and I'm like just work harder, just focus harder, and then I finally like started listening and I started and I'm like, oh gosh, like I am a hundred percent, have all of these tendencies and I've been able to manage and cope and ride the roller coasters and now I'm building my own schedules around it.
Speaker 1:But as adults I think we have a little more freedom to work with it. But I found it to be more of a superpower for me and I think we've talked about that a little bit and I would love your guys' opinion is, the ability to lock in on something is something is for me personally, the things that I enjoy and lock in on are ones that the world rewards. So it's it's worked out for for me because those are the things that I just love to solve certain problems and and it works out. But like I'm just curious you guys, how you work through that. I know you're wired very similar as I am. How do you look at that? Do you feel like, where are you on the spectrum each of you, and kind of how do you approach that and how do you fulfill that on a daily basis?
Speaker 2:I think you just said some stuff that for me, like ties to God, I mean for real. You said you know we talked in a prior podcast about what defines the 1% spiritual money. You know, and I think the most fulfilling thing in life is to follow your passion and you're gonna be rewarded for that in some way, shape or form. One of those three ways and who are we to determine which one is more important? So when I say that, what I mean is and I just, of course, lost my train of thought, so goodness, why don't you jump in? And then I'll get back in, because I had some pretty significant thoughts- Pose your question again.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, I just, at the end of the day, we as adults have the ability to control our environments more and, as we kind of lean in, how do we, how do you approach that? Do you see this as a superpower and your ability to lock in and on different things? And where do you set on the spectrum from an ADHD standpoint, and how much of your success or failure do you attribute to that? Yeah, I would say I'm probably halfway to a little past half on the ADHD spectrum. I wouldn't say I'm on the high side, but I've got a good amount of it for sure. Um, but I also have high discipline. I feel like to counteract that.
Speaker 1:Um, I don't know exactly where that came from or how it manifested in young childhood. Maybe it was playing baseball stars, I don't know. But yeah, and I would say you're absolutely right, the public education system is a one size fits all in terms of the environment and we have certainly have more flexibility to adjust the environment to better fit our challenge, skills, balance with respect to what our skills are. Uh, a hundred percent. And, um, you know, I, I to your point, I have uh leveraged my discipline at times to lean into, um, to lean into, I guess, my superpower in that regard, a combination of the discipline and the ability to hyper-focus on things or hyper-fixate, which, as we talked about as a as an element of ADHD. To, yeah, to to make a very accelerated progress in certain areas.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I I kind of got my train of thought back. I want to. You know I paused in my story at high school. I want to kind of take it from there. You know, I also want to call this out while it's on my mind. You know, I think that some of those drugs out there on the market and there's a big concern with me and Miles because I don't want to go down that path Like they I have a lot of friends in their forties that are taking like Adderall, you know, to focus on things that they don't find interesting, and I think that's a crutch.
Speaker 2:I think that being able to, I think you're doing yourself a disservice, right, because you're making things interesting that you typically wouldn't. And it's this false focus where, if you spend a little bit more time and effort on the discipline side of things and or on the reframing things to to naturally get there, it's more sustainable long term. But anyways, let's go back to kind of how this played out for me and when the when the rubber did meet the road, you know, so luckily and this is all happenstance. This may not happen for other people. I just happen to be really into electronics and technology at the most opportune time in history you know we're talking about late 90s, I mean from the advent of the personal PC. So for me I didn't have to learn discipline right away. So I graduate high school We've talked about it numerous times with a 1.7. Somehow I get into college, I make it through a semester and almost get kicked out of school for cheating on a geography test, I don't know whatever. And so after a year and a half we decided like, oh, this isn't working out. Luckily I had become obsessed with technology, so I was able to parlay that into certifications at a Microsoft certification and CompTIA certifications and all these things. And then just happened to go to a job fair at Purdue and happened to get hired by Microsoft all along the way, never really having to face the music as it related to discipline.
Speaker 2:Then I get to Microsoft and then I, you know, get to a point of my career there early on where I didn't agree with my manager. Well, nobody's ever made me do anything. So I got fired three years in and again, luckily, we've got the family structure we have. Luckily, you know, there's a baseline level of knowledge to be able to take advantage of some of the things. And you look at this as societally. At a larger level, I took advantage of unemployment. So I just, you know, hung out, made whatever a month because I'd made so much. At a larger level, I took advantage of unemployment so I just, you know, hung out, made whatever a month because I'd made so much at a young age working at Microsoft. I got the max benefits and then I went back to work again for Microsoft and no discipline.
Speaker 2:I've told you guys this story many times. I probably spent half of that employment for a year playing party poker, you know, in a VP's office who wasn't physically on site. Guess what. I got fired again and then I ended up at Disney. Luckily, again by happenstance, you moved out. We'd started this nightlife thing. It was a complete and utter failure.
Speaker 2:But through following my path and now I'm learning, okay, you're going to have to do stuff you don't like. If you're going to have to do stuff you don't like if you're going to continue to exist in the corporate world. Now you're learning discipline and you have more of a capacity to learn discipline as you get older. You see, you have other experiences in life. I got really into bodybuilding, which you know that was in the early 2000s and really helped me understand discipline because I was seeing results from hard work and consistency. So that helped me build discipline at this point in time.
Speaker 2:But, like a lot of people, if they didn't have the family structure we had or, you know, the ability to shift into paying for certifications and parents that were concerned enough to find that solution for me, hey, go here, go to uh you know network services group, you can get this. You're left in a real precarious position. But I learned it through all that. I applied that discipline to building my own business through some of the relationships you helped me develop.
Speaker 2:But again, I still wasn't quite there and I was in this environment where I thought I could skirt the responsibilities. And guess what? I got fired from Disney and at that point my back was firmly up against the wall. At least I had some point of reference as it related to discipline on the athletic side of things and we talked about that earlier potentially building that through sports, you know. So luckily I had the right interest at the right time which was able to carry me because there was so much need in that particular industry to a point where I developed discipline over that next six years of my life that I could then apply to my own business and was able to find success from that point forward. But, um man, if it hadn't been the right thing and we hadn't, and I hadn't had the right support system in place, I could have just as well been homeless, and I did live in my car for a couple of weeks.
Speaker 1:Can I ask a question? Because I feel like you attribute when you started taking medicine. It gave you an excuse and I hear you say I use that to where I had no discipline because it was my out and I had to learn discipline. The hard way Is that the connection you have. It's like medicine didn't solve the problem, but yet it gave me a. It kind of just allowed me to just let loose and have no responsibility. Is that the downside that you personally experienced.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I think we're wired for fun and excitement, especially boys, and what's more fun and exciting than, like you know, and I think we go back to passions and I don't know if I've talked about this in this episode, but I've definitely talked about it in another podcast where my love is making people happy and creating these cool environments, like with the races for people to thrive, and that's why I think you know, the nightlife thing was so successful, because I loved creating those environments for people. And so for me, not knowing this at the time, I wanted to entertain man, I wanted to create these fun and cool environments. So, you know, I think a lot of people with this disorder are smart, I think, you know, extremely smart, and so I'm like, well, I've okay, here it is, I'm going to manipulate this. I can make high school all fun because I have this out. So what I'm going to do is, anytime I get in trouble, you know, oh, what's TJ doing?
Speaker 2:Oh, he's entertaining people by biting the solar panels on calculators and everybody's laughing at him. Like you know, I I was. I opened up the book of calculators and was breaking the solar panels with my teeth just because it was entertaining, or eating bees or eating chalk or hitting teachers with spit balls, or I mean you know people have more recollections of half of this stuff than I do. It's not again. It's damaging property, but at the end of the day it's somewhat harmless. Tj just got up and walked out of chemistry class and started doing loops and high-fiving his buddies that were in other classes because he was bored.
Speaker 2:But I was creating that funny environment, things for people to look back on, things that were entertaining, and I had this out because and it's a combination it wasn't just the medicine, it was also how it had been conveyed to the people that were in power within the school, through our parents or to whoever else that allowed me to utilize that to create the environment that I wanted to create. And eventually I realized you can do that, but you need to do it with rules, and that is what eventually TPD became in 06. I needed six more well, at best 10 more years of of that to understand that you can't just be that person and I think you're seeing that with today's media stars, these YouTubers that get famous at 15, and then they have these massive fall-offs because they don't realize that it's not all fun, man, it's just not.
Speaker 1:Post-stardom depression, those YouTubers you get that expectation way high up there. But expectation is another episode. I want to talk to you about this and ask you, because you just made the decision to homeschool your youngest for a year. You've got your oldest going through this Like what's your hypothesis right now? Where is your? What are you betting on or experimenting with on ADHD, discipline, all the stuff? It's a great question. There's a lot there. I'm personally.
Speaker 1:I don't take medicine on a consistent basis. I don't have anything knock on wood at this point that requires that. And so when my son came to me with concerns and a struggle, focus. Roman is 1,300 on his PSAT as a sophomore. He's very smart, he takes tests well but has always struggled to lock in in those areas and arenas. So I don't think he would mind me sharing this.
Speaker 1:We did decide to go, you know, meet with a doctor and start trying medication to just see kind of what. And I'll never forget the first day he took it. I was doing some business coaching for a couple of my clients and I've never seen Roman sit down and lock in and engage and like start asking questions with them there and like it was like a whole, whole different kid and he just said, dad, the branches have stopped growing. Like I can pay attention and focus. After a couple of months, you know, he said, you know what. I've realized that like this doesn't completely solve the problem. That like I can, you know I can kind of. So he's got great self-awareness for, I think, some of the things you're talking about, but it has given him the ability to lock in. I question whether that's a good thing or bad thing that he is trying to lock into things that may or may not is. Is chemistry to AP going to be something that he has to take to, you know, be successful in life and lock into all these AP classes? And maybe, maybe not? I think my bigger struggle and hypothesis in life and my journey has just it's got me kind of challenging the status quo.
Speaker 1:Me and my wife have talked about homeschooling for years, but I've always been afraid. I've been afraid to pull the trigger, because this world has been created and here's what everyone does and here's the environment that most people play in and here's how everything is measured. It's measured by SAT scores and NWEA scores and, like heaven forbid, I don't go down that path. Like what if my kid gets to be this great and they're not in that system. And what does that mean? And oh my gosh, oh my gosh, like that's the anxiety that comes with it of wanting to try something different. And then I started thinking in life and in business and we've talked about this as like the fear of failure, right, like we're all afraid to fail, we're all afraid to take chances and fail. And I'm like, why am I afraid to fail? If I homeschool my second grade kid and it's a year and it doesn't work out, when he's 15, will he remember his second grade year that he was homeschooled? Chances are he won't, and the damage that I can do or can't do, I don't believe is going to be detrimental long-term. So it brings up a good question I want to ask you before you go on, which is how are you defining success At the end of the year? How will you know whether or not this has been successful? It's a really great point.
Speaker 1:So we've decided to roll the dice and do this, and so we're doing. We've done a lot of research. We're doing a different variation. We have some book work, we're covering the main courses. We've got this program that we're trying called Apogee, which is this kind of family-based entrepreneurship, project-based learning which we're really excited about. Like the first one is like creating a family crest and learning about the history of you know crests and back in the day, and so there's some history components and then building this and understanding the values. There's just like and there's projects like sick.
Speaker 1:So for for me, I still have this, like I got to check some boxes. So, like the second grade curriculum, they're doing addition and subtraction and they're learning these things and they can read at this level. So there's some baseline things that I'm I got, I got my eye on that. We have to check boxes, but outside of that, it's it's project-based learning, it's experiences. I was talking to my son. We're hosting a group of people at the lake and I said, okay, these are the meals and we have to go to the grocery store and let's look up how much we need to buy and you're going to help me host this and you're going to be a part of this and here's what this looks like and they'll get to sit in on that, and so there's some life experiences tied in.
Speaker 1:So back to your question defining success is. I do want to make sure that they've completed the coursework for a second grade level. I'd like to see them be a little bit further. There are a few things like Beast Academy for math. That's like online, and like Night Zookeeper, which is another one that's more online, where you're, you know, you do these things and you unlock these zoo, these animals in the zoo, as you get to different levels. It's gamified the whole thing and he's like locked in and wanting to do it. Uh, within that we're trying to provide structure, but he can from eight to probably 11 in two or three hours. He's going to get all of that in.
Speaker 1:What I'm struggling with is not tying it to comparison to the current system, realizing that I don't believe the current system is a great fit for everyone, and I think that I can teach him all the things that he needs to be successful in life between me and my wife at home. So there's still some fear there that lingers about. You know what this is going to look like. How important is college going to be in 10 or 15 years? I don't know that. Will he still have the ability to go to college? I believe he will. Will he get behind based on the scoring systems? Because classrooms teach for testing now, and that's a big thing. How much of those are going to be important in life skills? How many of those do I need now His attrition of being around and listening to conversations and things that I'm involved in and can I provide some of that?
Speaker 1:I hate to kind of go to this one person, but I'm going to use an example Grant Cardone, cardone Capital. He's got a $5 billion real estate portfolio homeschooled. Both his girls and I'm just going to give you one example. There's plenty of stories on either side of this, so don't take this for gold, but they started working for him and his companies at a very young age. They had contracts, they made sales calls, they bought into. They both graduated by like age 15 and they're, you know, selling tickets for events. They're buying into the real estate portfolio at Cardone Capital and they're learning all these life skills. They're traveling the world. They're doing something different, and they're arguably saying that Grant's like I don't want my kids to go to college.
Speaker 1:He goes, like you know, if you want to learn how to party and drink and do things like that, that's fine, and I'm not saying there aren't some good skills that you can learn at college. But what is the true value in the education system, what are the true value in building the skill sets? So I'm really anxious to see if we can continue to develop him and things he's interested in at a faster pace. Like he was playing Bellatro the other day and he understands it. We've taught him how to play Liverpool he's eight. Like he understands the cards, he understands runs and straights, like the things that he's interested in, being able to dive a little bit deeper and teach them a little bit differently. And so there's some fear there, there's some excitement there and I'm okay with failing as long as I learn from that failure and I continue to build.
Speaker 1:So come next July, if he has kind of enjoyed it and he is kind of at the right aptitude and he's accomplished the second grade boxes that need to be checked and that you'll probably continue down the path 100%, yeah, because then it allows time for him. Like there are physical fitness things. Like you know, he can get that soccer mat out and do the soccer thing. He can go homeschool, he can go play basketball once a week. So there are some extracurricular things where, okay, well, if you're going to private soccer training for an hour a week, then you're doing 20 minutes of soccer fundamentals, right. So some of those sporting things that they could really develop and focus on. I think it allows them.
Speaker 1:And then it's just about how do you assimilate and get them around other kids and build friendships and relationships, which is a kind of a whole whole, nother part of it, but that's something that used to scare me more than it does now. Whole, nother part of it, but that's something that used to scare me more than it does now. So, yeah, I think the standard for social skills has dropped drastically as everyone's gotten more in their technology. Yeah, period. So I will set social skills aside. That's a big thing, but one of the things that you pointed out is really interesting that people in your case, or Cardone's case, may not need as much, or kids of people who are as well networked and as professionally successful as you are, and that's access to the job network. So most people go through the education system. Part of in addition to discipline is they go through this education system to have access to higher end jobs, or that may be something that you can, through your network, resolve for them. They wouldn't necessarily need to rely on that system for that. Yeah, and I think that's probably true for a lot of people. I mean, you didn't rely on your education to get you where you are today.
Speaker 1:In the last several jobs that you've had my kids I'm really interested in a sports complex. My kids were bought into this sports complex. They came with me and we gave a presentation in front of a board of community leaders and they both played a role in that. Like how cool is that for them to be part of the development of it, to see the vision of it, to talk about their personal experience in youth sports and to present that in front of 10 community leaders. Like it's just so cool to be able to and that type of presentation. My oldest, who has done the IMG internship program, shout out.
Speaker 1:We we try to take two kids from every school within. You know that that's in high school. So if you have a kid that's in high school, that's interested. We do a IMG internship program which requires him to give presentations and to be professional, and so him doing that for two years presented him very well to get up there and actually have that where my eighth grader was a little bit more nervous. So I believe that you have to get to a level of education.
Speaker 1:But I think back to all the classes I took, like I probably didn't need to dissect pigs, and there's certain things that I look back on now it's like man. If I could have done some of these and had some of this experience at a younger age and understand how different things worked and made some different investments, my life would be probably dramatically different than what it is now. Where I think this is really interesting and compelling is, I think, from a life skills perspective, homeschooling is going to be far and away much more sophisticated in terms of preparation. I can't imagine that some of the things that you're having exposing them, to which not everyone may have access to, but I would think, even for your normal middle-class parent, could provide more life skills in probably a half day than what a school typically provides today. When you're talking about basic math problems, you know language arts. That might be a little bit different. That might be a little bit different, and so that I think, from a life skills perspective, I think I would agree with you 100%. A homeschooling environment's probably going to.
Speaker 1:The question I think that you're experimenting with is how does that weigh out having their life skills better prepared? How does that weigh out against maybe any sort of step, small step backs in terms of discipline, social environment, skills and or access to the job? You know the typical job funnel. How do those weigh out? I think job and college are the two that if everyone is rated on this scale and they're not on that scale, then how does it play out correct? That's the big thing and I don't I don't know the answer to that.
Speaker 2:I don't think anybody can check. Here's the thing. No matter which way you go, you're not going to check all the boxes, right. And I think what I like over here is you guys have a level of self-awareness and thoughtfulness around and that's the most important thing with anything is putting all that effort into checking as many of the boxes you can in the environment you're in. I mean, you know we talk about social, right. You're exposing them to, uh, other business leaders. You're exposing them to as many friends and family and then and then through sports and other things, uh, you know, when I say specifically in this, this homeschool environment, I've seen just as many kids go to big schools and find a niche of friends that is so specific that they don't have to socialize with anybody else. So, even going to a big school, they're still not developing the social skills.
Speaker 2:I have two great examples I've said this before on podcasts with when we were growing up, there were so few kids homeschooled that they were always looked at in a particular light. I have two kids that I'm in very close proximity to that were both homeschooled. Um, drastically different results. I don't know if this is a thoughtfulness thing. I don't know if it's just the way they're physiologically wired, um. But one of them is very bright and very interested in a specific arena and, you know, is really I think someday again, provided he has access to this specific area of professional or this specific professional employment opportunity, will do very, very well. The other one is extremely articulate, very socially developed. I was able to put him in front of somebody for an interview last week, hired him on the spot, you know he just finished high school, he's going into, so like very well developed in that regard. So two completely different people, but I think the thoughtfulness is extremely important around it. And then I love that you brought up the networking and the particular exposure and being able to put them in a position, and you are right too, in a sense that I think a lot of people have the ability to do that.
Speaker 2:There are certain people that don't, and I think you see that like from an immigration perspective, you know, uh, people that come over from asia without that network focus very heavily on schooling and getting into these ivy league schools, which again then opens them up to these certain particular types of jobs. So I think it's again self-awareness, self-awareness and effort around. Okay, I'm seeing that my, my kids, passion may be in an arena that I can't. And when you recognize that, okay, it's fourth grade, this kid wants to be an engineer, I'm out of my depths. He needs to focus here. Versus what you've with your other kids you've recognized man, they really could do well in this business thing. What you've with your other kids you've recognized man, they, they really could do well in this business thing. Um, this is something that I can facilitate, you know. And then I, I would say, lastly this is just an anecdotal comment around grant cardone, because he's an interesting human who has his positives and negatives and has been involved in both sides of the of the spectrum. There there are people that love him and hate him. Um, I, I I do take a little umbrage with the throwing any experience underneath the bus.
Speaker 2:I mean, I had the least of the three of us in terms of college and didn't get, from a educational perspective, probably gleaned close to nothing, but it was still a formative year, year and a half of my life. So I think, what are you going to learn to do? You know, I think, what it does. What are you going to learn to do?
Speaker 2:Drink and party, I think what it does.
Speaker 2:What are you going to learn to do?
Speaker 2:Drink and party?
Speaker 2:I think what it does is it demeans not demeans, but like, maybe puts a little less emphasis on those situations.
Speaker 2:Like, hey, guess what, man, if your kids are in a high pressure situation and drinking is involved and they don't know how to act in and around that situation or they're awkward I mean, I've had people that I know personally, that I've done business with, and they've made the comment I don't trust people that don't drink. If you you know, and maybe that's not somebody you want to do business with, right, but if you find yourself in a situation with that person and you don't drink, you better have been in that environment before or been in a situation that you know how to navigate. So those things are going to pop up. You're going to have those life experiences and I think being as well-rounded again like everything in moderation, I think a key word there is also everything. So I think that's my take on it. But I think back to it, as long as you're thoughtful about it and you're self-aware and you recognize things and you're paying attention, I think you guys could really have some pretty badass results.
Speaker 1:The other thing I want to put a cap on this and then kind of branch into something is, if your kid doesn't fit the one size fits all public school system that we talked about previously, where it's not in their challenge, skills, balance, I think the ROI goes environment for him to learn and he's just going to basically fail. It's going to hit his confidence and all those kinds of things. I think there's a lot of implications of keeping people in that that don't fit. So I think that's another big potential plus there. Yeah, what I wanted to talk about a little bit to bring us back to ADHD, is and you kind of hit on this. We've we've talked about this. I'd be interested in your perspective. It's like threading this needle of you know the diagnosis. What that does is acknowledges.
Speaker 1:In my opinion, diagnosis of ADHD acknowledges that someone is maybe starting from a little further back. Okay, they've got a little bit, potentially more ground to make up to overcome this potential or particular wiring challenge with respect to how they fit in today's society. Right, so like. And then you've got this element of but you don't want to.
Speaker 1:The diagnosis can also lead to an excuse and or an outlet and you're potentially misincentivizing these people. Honestly, it's not a whole lot different than and maybe this is an unfair comparison, but for the welfare system, like you, have certain people that, just in what family they're born into, they're starting further back. Maybe it's not with respect to their ability to pay attention and their cognitive wiring in that perspective, but it could be with the environment that's surrounding them and the things that they learn at a young age that also are not conducive to being able to go through the system right. So how do you acknowledge people and hear them and acknowledge the fact that they're starting behind, potentially in some form or fashion or another, without creating a system that runs into the same things that you've talked about, which are enabling someone to have excuses or not learn critical things like discipline or others, because they've got this way out?
Speaker 2:Well, dude, um, you know, I will say with me, I think, because of the way our mother was wired, which is education is everything, you have to follow the traditional path. She was putting all of her time and effort into ensuring I got the education, so she was focused on he forgot his books. We need to get his books so we can get home and study them. Or he's not paying attention to class. He's got to pay attention to class. Because he doesn't pay attention to class. He's got to pay attention to class. Because he doesn't pay attention to class, he's not going to go to college. He's not going to, I mean you know, that's the fear.
Speaker 2:I was in my late thirties and she was still talking about maybe going back to school because she saw her father not go to college. Right, he went to the military and he got to a point in his career where he had made, he'd burned some bridges along the way and he had to start from scratch and she never wanted that to happen to us. So there's that fear there as it relates to you know, but I think with the system, there's that fear there, as it relates to you know, potentially having to start from zero. So her focus was so laser on that, as opposed to kind of the approach that Trent's taking. And I think for me it kind of boils down to the like the premise of all of our podcasts with the all right, like they have this, it's going to be harder and with what you guys are undertaking, it's not the easy button. But for some people and I think for me, I think where I say, where I can see it falling down, is we all want to be special and that's the hard thing here.
Speaker 2:And when you hear that, even as a parent, I think if you're doing this, this is going to sound a little bit judgmental but it's like, ah, it just doesn't work for my kid and you think that these things are going to be the easy button and you want them to have these excuses. And it goes back to the welfare system. There are people that have been born in a certain situation that utilize the welfare system to get out of it. Then there are people that utilize the welfare system and abuse the shit out of it, and I think that's what we're talking about here is all right, man, we're going to have to buckle down and put this plan in place and we're going to have to address these things in this manner. Maybe there's some medication early on and we're going to utilize this in balance to get you to a point, and we're going to focus on these things that maybe help you versus like oh, this is too hard for my son or daughter, I'm going to put this in this environment, put them in this environment. That's my take.
Speaker 1:This is going to sound weird. What if I change Isaiah's environment to where it's not a deficit but it is a superpower? What if, let's say, roman and Isaiah were wired identically and, by doing this and allowing that creativity in those different areas, that it doesn't become a hindrance because it's not in the system anymore?
Speaker 2:Well, I think that's the whole thing, right.
Speaker 1:And I'm not saying the system's bad.
Speaker 2:No, that's what I'm saying. No, it's a positive thing. I mean, that is what happened to me within the system. I figured it out when I was 16. Had mom and dad realized that that was an option, and when I was 16, you know, had somebody had mom and dad realized that that was an option, and and and, when I was in second grade, put me in an environment where I could play a little bit more, and then, oh well, he's really interested in this and then allow that.
Speaker 1:And then you were doing age 10, you were focused on computers and you were the things you would have done. I could have been.
Speaker 2:I could have been Sergey Brin I don't know right Like found in Google or whatever. Like you have that much more aptitude. You know, if I had the ability to code at 17 and could have been a computer scientist, I mean like, yes, I'm not faulting them, I think they did a phenomenal job and it had all worked out. But absolutely, I think that's that. But if you weren't doing that and you were just homeschooling him to, homeschooling him because school was hard and he couldn't pay attention and you guys weren't putting the thoughtfulness and effort, or you put them in a school that may have a little bit of a different curriculum, I think it goes back to if you're doing your job as a parent and if you want to put them in a different school with a different curriculum. That's approaching things and you've done your research and the teachers there are good and yada, yada, yada, yada. I think that's really important and I think that's what drives, and I think that's what drives this.
Speaker 1:I think there's a tycoon path here. I think there's a path where, if you can keep him in a sweet spot and in his areas of passion and he can get into a professional workforce in that area of passion and lean into that. I think there's a tycoon model. He'll be better prepared, he'll be more. I think you know. The one thing you're trying to guard against is let's use discipline for an example. If, in certain cases, where people do this as an easy button and don't focus on shoring some of these areas up, when he gets into the workforce and has to do something and maybe you're not around at this time he has to do something that he absolutely hates and he's just absolutely unwilling to do it. That I think you know. But you will be able to. If you continue to go down this path, you'll find ways to develop that. Yeah, I'm not going into this thinking that it's the shining silver bullet and that it's going to be easy. And I'm not going into it thinking that Isaiah has ADHD. Honestly, I know that he's high energy. He's the youngest of four, so he's eight, and anytime he's around kids he hangs out with the tens and 12 year olds. He is learning things much younger than the other kids, just because he wants to be like them. So he's just continued to kind of navigate that way and I think, at the end of the day, being willing to fail and to learn and to grow, and realize that the worst thing that could happen is that he doesn't play in the same system and that he may not live up to the standardized testing that the world values for school and for jobs. And I think that's okay. But we will take it year by year and there will be a point in time where a level of education and it's probably fifth grade for me to where I won't be able to help him on certain things. So there'll be. You know, there may have to be some pivots there too, but then there's some plus sides. He could go on business trips with me. There may have to be some pivots there too, but then there's some plus sides. He could go on business trips with me. He could get exposure to things just because of my work and the work I do with other business owners. There's going to be some things that I'm going to try to expose him to. So we're going to do our best to position him well, as we have our other kids.
Speaker 1:We were again too afraid to start this early on. It may be something that we look back on and be like you know what? I'm glad we tried it, but it didn't work out and he goes right back to school. So I don't want to. I don't want anyone listening to think that, oh well, this is the answer and we've got the Holy grail and if you don't homeschool your kids, you're bad. Like listen, we're going into this with a lot of faith and trust and it's probably going to try my wife's patience and there's going to be lots of challenges with it. But I do believe there is a different way and I'm not sure that to your guys point the, the one shoe fits all is the best approach for most of the population, but it is one of the only options.
Speaker 1:I think I was just going to share one other thing.
Speaker 1:I think even within the school system, we have to make decisions about what we want you know, depending on, because we've looked at different school systems to put our kids in and we have to decide what we're willing to take on as parents and what we want.
Speaker 1:The school system, school systems specialize in different things, so one of the things. Being Catholic, we have talked a lot about potentially sending our kids to the Catholic school and at this point you know we did that for a little bit but we saw some challenges in fear of failure and things not being in proximity to really challenging academic environment. And so we've decided at this point we're going to let the school kind of focus on the academic side and we're going to have to really be responsible for building the spiritual habits and values and things, and I think you know and others, they might prefer the school to do that part of it and then they, you know, maybe get them into some extracurricular academic things to build on that. So, whether it's discipline or life skills, or you know spiritual foundation, or you know the academic excellence within the confines of what the school teaches, I think we've all got to add to that, we've got to supplement that in different ways.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thoughtfulness, awareness and effort, man, I think those are the three big things. There are so many little nuances that you have to make decisions on and as long as you're paying attention to that, I've I heard a real. I know we've kind of droned on, but I heard a really interesting statistic, or I had. I was having a conversation with the kindergarten teacher the other day, our first grade teacher, and she was telling me that you know we were talking about, you know miles is um about as young as you, as young as you can be for a second grader. He's six days before the cutoff.
Speaker 1:And consequently she also had a kid who was like Is he in second grade, miles?
Speaker 2:Uh-huh, oh, wow.
Speaker 2:She also had a kid who, like Miles, just turned seven and she had a kid who turned eight in March or something Like a year and a half difference.
Speaker 2:And you know, everybody focuses on the young kids and their excitement and their lack of, she said. But you know what we saw from the other side that, physiologically, these kids that are a year and a half older, they she's like I've noticed a lot of those kids don't have friends because they've matured a little bit faster and they can't relate to the boys that are a year and a half younger and there's like this isolation factor, so like there's this double-edged sword and it's like, well, if you realize that your kid is the one that is this kid, then, like you said, you might need to focus on hey, let's maybe try to put forward some things or some activities that will help you connect with the people that you're around. So there's so much there. But, again, thoughtfulness, awareness and effort, I think is the best thing you can do as it relates to ADHD and anything else, and putting a plan forward that benefits your situation.
Speaker 1:I do want to add one thing, because I'm on the other side of that, and that's one of the things that we did thoughtfulness, awareness, effort, to your point. Oliver, in particular, is very hyperactive, very fidgety, very spotty attention. We held him back. So he's an April birthday and he is nine in third grade and he will going into third grade. He'll turn 10 this year in third grade and that was one of the things that we did, just from an emotional maturity perspective, from a brain development perspective. Him having the expectations, you know, one year down. Um, you know, is is something that we did, uh, you know, as part of that and you never, you don't, you never see both paths play out. Um, but I think to your point, it can be. The right answer could be to have them go, could be to hold them back.
Speaker 1:It's just thoughtfulness, awareness, and you gotta make the best decision you can.
Speaker 1:Well, you guys good, that's a wrap. Whether it's ADHD or other things that are going on, I think they nailed it. It's just being aware, thinking through it. I know that I personally didn't. I tried to ignore it, at least in my oldest case, and having more conversations about it. Helping to position him better to achieve his goals is important. So I think there's a lot of ways to approach this and we've kind of discussed that. Hopefully, you guys got some great value and we look forward to seeing you next time. Thanks,