The Dailey Edge Podcast
Join hosts Trent, TJ, and Todd Dailey as they explore the intersections of technology, culture, fitness, and personal growth. Through engaging discussions and personal anecdotes, the trio dives into topics ranging from childhood gaming nostalgia and cutting-edge fitness tech to the pursuit of happiness and lifestyle choices. Whether reminiscing about epic gaming marathons, sharing tips for staying on the forefront of fitness trends, or unraveling the complexities of modern life, The Dailey Edge delivers thoughtful insights, lively debates, and relatable stories for listeners of all walks of life.
The Dailey Edge Podcast
🎙️Episode 24: The Pursuit of Longevity: Balancing Health, Habits, and Modern Solutions🎙️
We dive into the complex world of longevity, exploring the balance between extending lifespan and maintaining quality of life in a society obsessed with health optimization.
• The concept of reaching a point where life expectancy increases faster than we age
• Examining peptides, GLP-1 (Ozempic), and other emerging treatments
• The value and limitations of customized health solutions and testing
• Living with autoimmune disease and navigating medication versus lifestyle changes
• Food sensitivities and the challenge of restrictive diets
• The possible connection between processed foods and modern health issues
• Different health outcomes when eating the same foods in different countries
• The critical importance of sleep for recovery and longevity
• Finding balance between health optimization and actually living life
Try finding what works for your unique body rather than following generic health advice. Monitor your results, stay curious about new research, but maintain healthy skepticism about silver-bullet solutions.
Welcome to the Daily Edge, where we bring you the latest insights, opinions and thought-provoking conversations to give you that competitive edge in life, business and beyond. Let's go, welcome back to the Daily Edge. I'm here with my brothers, tj and Todd Daly, and today we really want to talk about longevity of life. You know, we're all I would say, most of us are trying to live as long as possible. I would say the caveat is you want to live healthy as long as possible, not just, you know, laying in bed. So there's so much going on in this realm. There's so many different ways to approach things. There's natural things that we should probably be doing, but there's also a pill or a shot for everything right, there's these shortcuts and I would love to just have a great debate around what you guys maybe are doing or have tried. What are some of those things that are widely recognized, as you know, ways to help increase longevity of life. And then you know, we this podcast a lot around fitness, right. So a big component of that for us is running and getting exercise. So that's one component, but, you know, nutrition's a component, and then all these other supplements and peptides and all this discussion, um, I think is going to be really interesting because I, I'm just dabbling in it and I'm like man I would love, instead of a primary care physician focused on well, hey, I, I, I I'm not in this level yet, so everything's okay to. I'm not in this level yet, so everything's okay to. Hey, here are maybe the things that are missing within your diet or you're low in this vitamin, and here is a customized way or a customized approach to help me maximize my energy levels and my longevity of life and so forth. So you know what makes this really interesting, why the timing is so fascinating.
Speaker 1:I don't know if you guys are familiar with Ray Kurzweil. He's a futurist and he talks about longevity and he has talked about a time and a point that we might hit in the next 20 years, give or take, where the average life expectancy is going to go up by more than a year for every year that goes by, right? So think about now. That doesn't mean you can't be hit by a bus or you can't get some sort of disease and pass away, but think about being 70 years old and by the time you're 71, the life expectancy has moved from 75 to 77. By the time you're 72, the life expectancy is 79. And by you know, and, and, uh, it's, it's.
Speaker 1:So this is really interesting because you know we could be talking about it if some of that holds true. And you know, I feel like life expectancy has plateaued, uh, for a while because of cancer and some of the other things that we've seen. Certainly, infant mortality held things down for a long time and then uh, but, but it's interesting timing for this because we could be at a place in 20, 30 years and maybe it's not us, maybe it's our kids generation, they, they could all be living well into their hundreds. Um, so it's really interesting topic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would agree. Luckily, I'm somebody who's explored quite a bit of bit of this, you know, especially with the we've talked about in prior podcasts the RA diagnosis, and there's been a lot of internal conversation I've had in my head, but I've explored some of the peptides out there as it relates to health. Don't do so. It's you know. I do think that there are different I wouldn't necessarily call it stages of life, but positions that you can be in from a health and wellness perspective that would lend themselves to certain solutions. You know, one of the big topics of conversation just over the last probably two or three years in mainstream media is Ozempic, which is GOP1, which is a peptide, and you know, know there have been a lot, you know when it came out.
Speaker 2:Of course there's the immediate vilification. You know people are losing weight in hollywood and then everybody's like, oh, it eats your bones and it eats all. Well, you know, and it doesn't discriminate, it just kills everything. Okay, but if you were a hundred pounds overweight, that might be worth it, because the damage that carrying around that extra weight is doing to you could be much more detrimental than a little bit of muscle degradation. Now there are people that don't want to go that way because they look at it as an easy way out, but there's a lot of weighing that goes on as it relates to some of these things out there, and maybe I'm just restating what you said.
Speaker 2:But when it comes to all right, where am I in my life? And, you know, can this help me get to a point where I can focus more on this? If I'm injured all the time, can I take this BPC 157 and TB 500, which help with muscle and tissue repair, to get me to a point where I can exercise more? So there's a lot of give and take there. And then what does that do you know? So it's really, um, an interesting thing to explore and I'd love to dive a little bit deeper in it.
Speaker 1:So let's, let's start with GLP, one Like that's. That is a um. Let's start with GLP-1. That is a Us.
Speaker 1:As humans, or let's just say Americans, one of the top causes of death has got to be heart disease. We struggle with very common diabetes, high blood pressure, and so a lot of these are things that we can improve right through health and wellness most of the time, if you're capable. So in your example, a GLP-1 does some things, from appetite suppression and some other stuff to where it helps people lose weight. But it was originally put out there for diabetes, right, and so it helps people with diabetes. And, to your point, there are probably some situations where, well, yeah, it helps control diabetes and so that's a good thing and they've been using it for that for a long time. But now it also if someone is to a point and they're so far overweight that the risks of the GLP-1 and the side effects may not be as bad as carrying the extra weight, potentially having heart disease and high blood pressure and so forth and so on. You know you're kind of picking one or the other and so for. For everyone, they have to do what they believe makes the most sense, and I think we're all trying to position ourselves and get ourselves as healthy as possible, like one of the things that we've looked into recently.
Speaker 1:You have Gary Brekka, right, 10x health, 10x health. And you go get a blood test, you do a dna test and they kind of their sales pitch is okay, we're going to tell you what you're deficient in, um, and we are going to create a supplement just for you. Right, we're gonna here's your pill with you need x amount of vitamin b and x amount of this and that, and we're going to customize and create this and this 10X solution is going to change your life. Have you known anyone that's done the 10X solution or that have looked into things that are like? Because the thing that's intriguing to me is the customization. Right, I want something customized for me because we're all three related. Our bodies are completely different. The things that you're high and low in because of our lif all three related. Our bodies are completely different.
Speaker 2:The things that you're high and low in because of our lifestyles and choices are all completely different you know, I think that I want to so in one of gary's tests right, is that methylation test and he thinks is the absolute holy grail.
Speaker 2:The problem is where I'm finding issue and this is probably helpful for our people out there is that like the way that the podcasters and the people that are involved in it, they speak so matter-of-factly and they're so confident in their comments Lane Norton is a very good, typical juxtaposition to somebody like a Gary Brekka, because I think where we run into issues and we've talked about this, you know when you lose passion for something and it becomes monetary, um, like gary brekka will. And again, I'm going to try not to be critical here, I'm just going to try to be as as objective as I can. If you listen to gary, especially gary in the last year, year and a half, two years you'd believe that cold plunges cured cancer. I mean he's made comments on podcasts like there is no way to burn fat better than a cold plunge, which cured cancer. I mean he's made comments on podcasts Like there is no way to burn fat better than a cold plunge, which is not just any cold plunge, it's only his cold right.
Speaker 2:Or he wants to sell you a red light therapy bed. There are a hundred grand right.
Speaker 1:I think that's important. Like what if you have a fitness center that has a cold plunge and a red light therapy? Does that change the game at all?
Speaker 2:Well, and I think there are certain benefits to it. There are certain benefits to the cold plunging, but I think when you get to a point where the person that you're listening to starts to sound like they have these cure-alls, there's hey, if you do red light therapy and you do cold plunge, you're going to live till you're 150. You have so many. It's this unique Brian Johnson's another good example, right, familiar with Brian Johnson.
Speaker 2:Brian Johnson's that longevity guy that made all that money in tech. And Brian Johnson has decided to spend every dollar he had not every dollar, right, but a portion of what he's made on figuring out how to live the longest. And he's in a group of guys that have competitions as it relates to measuring their vitality and their vitals. And hey, you know, like, if I look at my aura ring you've probably seen it on yours or whatever it says your fitness age is X, number of years lower Like mine's, 12 and a half years lower than my.
Speaker 2:I'm 46, so I'm 34, uh, as it relates to my health age, and that's what these guys like live for. Oh, yeah, we've measured this and and, and this very specific physiological metric is 20 years lower than what your your physiological or your physical age is, and they're focused on this type of stuff and all of the different um endeavors, that and so. But what happened with Brian Johnson? Brian Johnson has created a supplement that you take and it's all of his research combined into the supplement. That's going to, and I'm sure there's a lot of benefit there.
Speaker 1:But Does it discredit in your mind when someone takes a product to market and it's like this is the product? Is that, is that where like, versus someone just providing research? But if they're trying to provide a solution that costs money, do you look at that Like, ah, screwing me. Or they're trying to make money Like, how does that trigger for for you?
Speaker 2:I mean, it really depends. I do think there's probably. You know, brian has been very straightforward with documenting his journey so you can find most of it out there. So I do think there's probably been some effort put into it. Of course he's attacking things like AG1 and some of these other supplements that are kind of meant to be the catch-alls. I mean, it started with Juice Plus, right, get your fruits and vegetables in pill form, you know, and I think they still exist. But we were looking at that in the early 2000s, jp, and so you know that's evolved into ag ones and some of these other singular supplements. And then brian has his um, you know, it really depends for me, like, uh, derrick from more plates, more dates is a good one.
Speaker 2:You're drinking a gorilla mind over there, and you know, for him he's spent his career and he's not, uh, classically trained right, so he's not a doctor as it relates to the stuff that he explores, but he had this just passion and this incessant curiosity to uncover things as it related to supplementation, as it related to drug use. So he got very into understanding the chemistry behind steroids and some of these other things and so the products that he's brought to market. In my opinion, he's looked at where the industry has fallen down and where people have shortchanged the industry has fallen down and where people have shortchanged the industry, releasing things that claim to do certain things when they've got this minuscule amount of that ingredient in there that's not efficacious at all, that has no effect, that is not at a dosage that's critically required to do something to your body. He's taken that and he's producing products and when he released that energy drink he did like a three hour podcast on the ingredients list why it was there. How much of it via testing has been proven.
Speaker 2:So for me, I want to see that. Don't just tell me, because you know we're to a point now. Five years ago when some of this stuff was coming onto the scene when Wim Hof was you know, all of these things were coming onto the scene and we were seeing the power of some of these. A lot of people just took it and run with it. Now we're at a point where I think the industry's maturing to a level where we have got to start seeing the details. You know I love your approach and your excitement as it relates to the customization. I've done some of that with Dr Derek Murphy over in Fishers and had some of those tests. We could talk about that later, but that's kind of where I sit on the selling me things.
Speaker 1:So there's a balance for me. There's the natural side, right, like here are the things that maybe I, if I get eight hours of sleep or I right, there's all these things. I mean I have to laugh. I was, I played in a golf tournament recently and it's a several day event and there's a lot of drinking going on and so, you know, people are tying one on pretty good and then they wake up and they're doing um, somebody locally there was doing IVs, so he would wake up and so you'd get this IV that would pump you full of nutrients to offset the you know 17 beers you drank the day before, right? So some, some of this is like there's habits that are built into and I think I you said this in a previous podcast it's like don't do this unless you're doing these things, because those supplements or those extra things, if you're eating pizza every night and drinking six beers and eating a couple gummies before bed, there's probably areas you could start at Arguably. Gummies is another one that some people would argue there's a benefit to, right, like that's controversial. It's not legal in Indiana, yet it's legal in a lot of states. People use it to help them sleep, reduce stress, a lot of different things there.
Speaker 1:Where do you guys sit from a habit? You know, like, what are the the things that you try? I think you both gave up alcohol this year and you guys have. Maybe you talk a little bit about that, but that's something where you're like I'm literally putting poison in my body. You know, like, talk to me about some of your regular habits in lieu of I think we we do need to spend more time on the supplement side and I'd love to do that. But, like, what are some of the basic things that you guys buy into? Like, I've just, over time, realized that I'm just not going to do this anymore.
Speaker 2:You go first.
Speaker 1:I've shut down alcohol quite a bit, I would say, in the last five to ten years. Honestly, I never really acquired a taste for it in the first place. But I would say, yeah, I maybe have a drink, a quarter at best.
Speaker 2:Isn't that against?
Speaker 1:your religion, being a Catholic, drinking alcohol Not drinking or drinking, not drinking.
Speaker 1:Isn't that part of the Irish Catholic experience? No, it's okay, I can get by with that. Not drinking has been a big one for me. Certainly what I eat. I feel that a little more with some of the food, food sensitivities. Um, I would say it's sleep, it's, it's not drinking. Alcohol, uh, I would say, uh, food, um, running. And then orange theory. That's an interesting one for me.
Speaker 1:I've been a member at orange theory almost within a year of when it opened in Carmel, which has, been crazy to think, almost 10 years. I think it'll be 10 years next year and next fall. And that to me from a health perspective. Because you talked about the early, you talked about quality of life, right, that's kind of. My question is what is quality of life? You could do what you want to do with who you want to do it with, and I'm there at this point.
Speaker 1:The thing about Orange Theory is, if I go six months without going to Orange Theory, I can almost guarantee an injury, particularly provided I'm running. If I am doing running and I'm running the same motion over a six month period of time and I'm not doing any of the cross training that comes with Orange Theory, I've got some sort of ailment, whether it's my right knee, my ankle. I've had hamstring, I've had IT band stuff, you name it. There's some injury just getting through shin splints right now, some sort of injury that has popped up because I have not continued to cross train. So for me it's some of that. That cross training has been huge for me, just to feel well and not have nagging injuries that um continue to compound. So for me, when I think about quality of life, I'm thinking about again my ability to go out and play golf or walk 18 holes golfing or be able to run with you guys or run a marathon or run one of these Ragnar races. If I could do that, get up and down with my kids, like that sort of thing.
Speaker 1:I don't think there's anything at this point that when we talk about some of the supplements and those sorts of things that I can't do on a regular basis, that I need to do, that I am now maybe I'm underestimating.
Speaker 1:Maybe these things will keep me more mentally engaged, I'll have more energy, I'll be able to sustain higher levels of energy throughout the day. I'm not saying there's not more things there for me to dig into, but I think there's also a part of me and I have a very conservative disposition. I want to leave a few bullets in the chamber. What I mean by that is, like you know, I'm the youngest of the three of us, but there's probably going to be a point where I do I'm not able to do the stuff that I want to do on a daily basis, and you know, maybe that's the point where I'm going to dig into some of these supplements or some of these customized treatments or some of this advanced testing. For now, I feel like I'm able. I you know I have the quality of life that I want to have.
Speaker 2:I'm struggling a lot right now. This is like a perfect time to have this conversation because I'm having to make choices as it relates to this type of stuff. You know, definitely cut out the alcohol completely in January, but I was kind of trending that direction. You know, coming from nightlife and drinking seven nights a week, it has been interesting. I made a comment to somebody the other day that I'm kind of starting to feel like the boy in the bubble. I'll kind of unpack that a little bit.
Speaker 2:Just as it relates to living life. You know, a lot of times you look at people, especially online, that live these particular lifestyles and you're like that's ridiculous, right. They eat perfectly clean, they sleep 10 hours a night, like they do all of these things to, and it seems so restrictive and it seems like life turns into this no fun, right. You know, the other day I was somewhere and I was the one person not drinking and it was it's still new enough for me eight months or whatever that like man that could potentially help me navigate the situation socially a little bit better, and so it's still something that I'm learning to. You see people that have been sober for 10, 15, 20 years, that have figured that out. A lot of times you'll see people that have figured it out to the point that people can't believe that the way they're acting they're not drunk, you know they figured out how to navigate and be confident enough socially to engage in that way. But as this diagnosis has come forward, so this rheumatoid arthritis stuff it's really been tough for me. I've always been you and I both like. Diet has just been I love candy, I love sweets, I love food, always had a problem with it Talked about. That's why, as a big reason I run 60 miles a week is to keep that weight off. Big reason I intermittent fast is so I can, or used to be used to be, so I could have these gluttonous meals once or twice a day instead of smaller ones. So like a lot of it was centered around that.
Speaker 2:I've done a lot of the testing as it relates to food sensitivity, seeing what works for me, what doesn't work for me and what it's done is it's. You know, one of my doctors my rheumatologist and my primary care doctor recommended these diets that are non-inflammatory. And you combine that with the work that I've done as it relates to my food sensitivities and you feel so restricted in life, like I have food sensitivity to eggs, I have food sensitivity to dairy, I have food sensitivity to nuts. Well then you look at these restricted diets where you don't anti-inflammatory foods and two of those three are the solution. So like, oh yeah, you can eat nuts and eggs, but stay away from dairy, stay away from refined sugars and processed whatever. So the next thing, you know, like it becomes this really, really now, only do I, if I go to the bar with somebody or not a bar, if I go to eat with somebody, not only am I not drinking and I'm, you know, I can't eat basically anything on the menu, you know. And it's like, at what point and I guess it's that tipping point, right, I don't know if I'm to the point yet where it's bad enough from a life, like you said earlier, from a daily existence perspective, to for me, I don't think it's bad enough that I can continue this because it's so restrictive, and I think that is potentially a problem with society at large as we let it get to the point where it's.
Speaker 2:Like you know, I had this conversation and I'll be quiet with my rheumatologist the other day. I am on hydroxychloroquine and now she wants to put me on methotrexate. I've had some flare-ups in my ankle and so I've been on a steroid taper. It's a 30-day steroid taper, so you think of the dose packs, it's that over 30 days. And she's like okay, you're on this and you're on this.
Speaker 2:And my rationalization is I don't want to be on all this shit because of an ankle, like I'm used to pain. And she's like well, here's the thing. And having her explain this to me, what a lot of these drugs do, because I'm dealing with an autoimmune disease is, from an autoimmune perspective, my immune system's attacking itself. So what all of these drugs do is they tamper the immune system down. They tamper these cells down that are overactive. Well, that tampers your immune system. And what I didn't know is that steroids and they're prednisone there's tons of other side effects. I've had friends who've been on it long-term and major liver damage and other things like that. So that's probably the worst of the three.
Speaker 2:And she's like what I want to do is I want to put you on these things. Yes, they will tamper down your immune system, but they're better than being on steroids constantly. But, like you know I'm sure a lot of people out here maybe you're in this stage of life, or you look at your typically your parents' medicine cabinet and there's 400 prescriptions and you don't want to be that person that's on like I have to take nine pills every night because of those things, and so it's like it's hard because I think we're wired to want to solve the problems ourselves. And it's like man, if I did have to eat like that, perfect and I could avoid these things, maybe I, maybe I would do that. Maybe I'm not quite there yet, cause this pain isn't bad enough. My hands feel, whatever it's. It's just been a real struggle for me as to where I want to land and what I want to do, because I think, relative to a lot of people, my quality of life is pretty freaking good.
Speaker 1:You know, I think that's great. You're having to solve a problem, right, Because of the RA, and one of the things is like I have not been diagnosed. As I try to put myself in your shoes and the complexities of trying to feel good, right, Todd says he feels good for the most part. You know you're dealing with this autoimmune disease, which autoimmune diseases are so prevalent. Now, I don't know what's caused it. Maybe it's the type of food we've been eating or the things that we've been doing. But prior to RA, were you having any of these?
Speaker 1:Because I sit here, I'm like I don't really have anything that I can think of.
Speaker 1:That's like really, really bad. But for me to change my habits it's almost like you don't even have that conversation prior to like, oh man, maybe I shouldn't eat a bunch of sugar, Maybe I shouldn't eat a bunch of processed foods, or like you know, Um and like, so, like right now it'd be even harder for me to go on something that maybe prevents me from getting an auto immune disease, because it's just like I am part of the American diet, Um, you know, and so it's curious to me is how to even trigger that thought you're in the middle of and you're like I'm still not sure I'm going to take the clean way, Like I'm kind of taking the medicine way and kind it, and you're like I'm still not sure I'm going to take the clean way. I'm kind of taking the medicine way and kind of balancing it versus like no, I'm like I'm going to go down this because I believe this is the right path. And then it becomes who do you trust? Right, All the experts out there.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's such a. It's a. It's an interesting thing because, like you remember, it's funny. We were talking. We started talking about peptides because, you guys remember, in december, when it was as bad as it's been, like I couldn't live like that, like if it was that or eating clean, I would instant eat clean, um, for the rest of my life, no question. Uh, and I, I remember, and this is, this is this is a whole nother rabbit hole. But all of that started with my right foot and I've had foot problems. I had had foot problems for years. I was looking for bigger shoes and different brands and trying to figure out. It was pretty constant, and I mean it's constant. I wasn't walking around, right, it's constant as it relates to, again, running 50 to 60 miles a week, so that's whatever, and he always attributed it to running. So I started taking peptides In B. So I started taking peptides in BPC-157 and TB-500 in November. And again, these are not FDA approved.
Speaker 2:There have been a lot of anecdotes. There's a lot of anecdotal evidence as it relates to the efficacy of these. And here's where the problem lies and this is back to the whole money thing is, these drugs can't be patented, so nobody can sell these drugs. So you can't help feel that there is this conflict where Big Pharma and everybody else is saying these are bad for you, don't take them because they can't make money off of them, versus where this community, this health and wellness community, is like dude, I'm recovering. I tore a rotator cuff doing XYZ lifting a particular way and I took this and I was better in two weeks or whatever it is, and there's a lot of those stories out there. So I'm like, oh, let's try it. You cannot buy these things. I mean, it's similar to buying weed or something like that. So you find sites that take Bitcoin or there's other ways that you can get this, and it comes in a vial. There's plenty of information for you out there on Reddit and other sites, and you can deep dive on where you believe the trusted resources are, because you're injecting something into your body Shortly after getting those.
Speaker 2:And injecting those is when my body went haywire. Now, is it a coincidence? Totally could be. That could have been RA and it just got worse, but it was magnified pretty significantly over the next six weeks, and so you know, as it relates to that it well, I would have changed my diet right then and there I think I don't know man like what you're talking about when I was with my rheumatologist and she's talking about and I saw so, my wife's grandmother had rheumatoid arthritis and never treated it because they weren't financially, they couldn't do that, and all four of her fingers were like this and her toes were like this and you know, basically going through life with crab claws and I don't want that for myself.
Speaker 2:And she's like you know, if you don't get a hold of this, over time it will erode and you'll get erosions in your joints. And so we're going to do some things, like we're going to do some x-rays. I got some x-rays, so I want to kind of see where I'm at, because I'm kind of like where you are, like, if it's hard man, you don't want to take these things that are going to. You know, we, if I get on methotrexate, we have to start doing blood tests on a quarterly basis or a biannual basis to make sure levels are right and like what a daily cold plunge like where inflammation comes down is that?
Speaker 1:does that become part of your routine? Like, what are those more? I say that's natural. I guess it's a kind of a supplement. Everyone wants to sell you a cold plunge tub, but it's hard to know what to believe and what to try. And with your body it's.
Speaker 2:It's become so commonplace, right? She says I've had hundreds of patients. There are thousands or millions of people out there that are on this thing. Okay, and I mean in the nineties and the two thousands, it was the solution for everything. You got high blood pressure, you went on this medicine, you got um, you know whatever you were on this medicine.
Speaker 2:So you know, for me it is tough. I would, if it was more convenient and I know you guys do a decent job, but like the diet thing is so restrictive, it's basically meat when it's available, vegetables and like some really weird you know, like I can't even go out and get a cauliflower pizza because there's cheese on it.
Speaker 1:You know what? Yeah, I mean, I would just say I've struggled with the same diet thing. We must have similar wirings, because when I got my Everly Well assessment back, this was several years ago same things egg yolks, egg whites, bananas, nuts, like cashews, almonds. I can't eat a cash, a handful of cashews, almonds or peanuts without like feeling it in my throat within like three or four minutes. It's just like kind of a tickle.
Speaker 2:He's got that too.
Speaker 1:It is. It is a lot. Now I've been dealing with it for probably the better part of a decade. Did I say bananas? Yeah, that really sucks. You want to talk about race morning not being able to eat a banana? It's not good at all for the stomach. But dairy, all that stuff I've struggled with, even gluten, it does get easier. I have found, once you get comfortable with the alternatives, like I do, a ton of rice-based stuff.
Speaker 2:Rice has been and part of that— I'm not allowed to do white rice, so I have to do like couscous or— Is that is white rice and it's in like— In this particular day, it's the WALLS protocol. So it's like you know, because it's too much of a simple carb which is for running, Goodness gracious. Can it's too much of a simple, simple carb which is for running, Goodness gracious. Can you do brown rice? Uh, probably, yeah, so, so we do, we do some of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's uh, but that that is frustrating. Um, even like when the kids eat eggs and pancakes, like finally, I just stopped eating eggs and it just sucks. Um, it's really frustrating and I sucks. It's really frustrating and I can still as long as I'm not doing it every meal, like I find if I eat a little bit of cheese here or there, a little bit of this, and there it's not, but man, that's, it sucks.
Speaker 2:Well, that's what I'm starting to explore is like okay, can I work this in? Like, if we're going to go to a restaurant, can I have wings and and whatever that night, as long as I'm eating good these other days? And the other thing too is when I mentioned, you know, the boy in the bubble there's research out. I mean, look at how they treat people with severe allergies through exposure therapy. Right, like we're gonna, we're gonna give you a little this, and then the immune system works up, works up, works up, and then I feel like, cutting all these things out, you're actually becoming more a more fragile person. That's true. And so it's like, man, you know, we've lived. I lived 44 or 45 years doing it this way. Is the risk worth the reward? And I mean it's just, we're naturally wired, and it's also part of the American culture, to wait till the last minute. I mean we thrive.
Speaker 2:I think most people I don't know, man, I know we're all wired that way, even in business Like let's wait till the backs up against the wall pressure, let's knock this out, let's not try to get it done six months in advance. I think it's the same thing with health. It's like all right, I'm going to push this as far as I could push it, cause you made a good point on orange theory. It's like that's an area of life. I know that I'm not great at there. There are probably three months a year where I'll be really focused on cross training, lifting, doing those other things, because they say that's maintaining lean muscle mass is such an important thing, especially as fall risks become greater when you get older, and I don't do it well at all and I need to do more of that more consistently, so it's so tough.
Speaker 1:I'll tell you that that's actually an interesting one. Falls, like you hear, so much like that's end of life for a lot of people.
Speaker 2:Like people die. That cut mom's life a year short.
Speaker 1:That fall she had I bet cut her life a year short, broke her hip. Here, yeah, or upstairs the one upstairs that broke her hip.
Speaker 2:You remember mom going in to the hospital before and coming out after that Different person.
Speaker 1:Completely. Yeah, to think about balance so much you think it's so simple, but so many people ended up dying through a fall and then either infections or complications or just unable to recover from a broken hip or broken bone and bone density and that sort of stuff. That's a different. I think we're getting close to that point. If it's a different phase of fitness where it's like lean muscle mass and bone density and that sort of stuff versus like VO2 max and how fast you can run a mile, which I think that's going to be a tough shift.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's essentially I think this goes back to your Brecca thing Anybody who tries to simplify this it's not. It's just, it's not simple. A friend of ours I was talking to, who's heavy in the peptide game, said that his doctor said don't run at all. There has to be, you know, just lift or do whatever we know based on research, that VO2 max is a component of it, like you said, how much of a component of it, based on what part of your time your life is in is a different ball game. Um, you know, and how much of it. Like you know, uh, they, you know, 20 is is like mid twenties or low thirties, is like standard American VO two max or something like that.
Speaker 2:I'm in the sixties, we're probably all relatively close to that. Do we need to be that high? Could we be okay at 30 or 35? And you know, on the lifting side, you know, in the lifting community I saw a meme the other day that says studies show that if your dad can't bench 225, you have two moms. Right, so like you have two moms Right.
Speaker 2:So, like you know, those of us that have been in have lifted. We've all explored that at a period of times in our life. A period of time in our lives, you know, 225 is pretty significant. For those of you who aren't lifting, that is a bar with two plates on either side.
Speaker 1:Never, never got to that. I must be a mom too side, never, never, got to that.
Speaker 2:I must be a mom too. The point is like is that where you need to be, you know to to be, uh, to have? Is that the lean muscle mass goal, or is it being able to rep out plates 10 times, or is it less, or is it something else? Is bench press not even. Is it just you know major movements like deadlifts and and squats, and so there's all of these.
Speaker 1:What sucks about all of this and it's so hard is everybody's body's different and that's why I think I mean the customization. It's compelling that they're starting to go down that path, but the reason it's going to take us hundreds of years to figure this out is because of the customization. You can't do mass tests at scale for the human body, like the tests somehow are going to have to be so concentrated to a particular body type, just your entire physiology, and I don't know how you're going to be able to replicate that. It's just going to be just like when we went and did the Mayo Clinic executive thing. It was like we went to Mayo, they ran all these tests, like they came back with all this. You could meet with a nutritionist.
Speaker 1:I think there's going to be a huge spike and boom in these doctor setting up a doctor's office that are catering to that type of profile where okay, come, I mean they're going to be your primary care, but to me it's a primary care pivot, where it's like longevity of life and that everything is customizable. They're doing more proactive testing versus reactive, of like, oh, your LDL is high, so now you got to go on medicine versus here are the things that you're lacking in your body. I think there's a huge I'm going to call it opportunity for people to pivot and have doctor offices set up that way to talk more proactively and more uniquely about, instead of you go to the doctor and you have a cough while you're getting antibiotic 90% of the time. Or do you think this is a potential downside of living in a melting pot in the united states where everyone is physiologically so different because we come from different areas of the world and we're all wired so differently, like you wonder, in like okinawa, japan, for example, or some of these other areas zones?
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, so. So there's a couple things here. One, you get the blue zones where the life expectancy is significantly higher than other areas in the world. But also, I think we've got to stick with developed countries because of the resources that they have. Medically, we're one of the most, I would say, advanced in terms of the amount of resources we pour into medicine, but you've got to wonder where we're also one of the sickest nations.
Speaker 1:Well, some of that's obesity and that's a whole different animal. But I'm wondering if, like where you go back to where people have, you know similar types of people have inhabited for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. Right, let's take a Japan. Or you know certain provinces in China or some of these other. You know areas Middle East where not the big cities, where everyone is kind of migrated to, but you go back to where there are a lot of probably physiological similarities because of just how things have evolved over time. You wonder if that is a little bit of a simpler problem to solve. Now, the ironic thing is those are generally in rural areas that don't have the same resources as, like, a US or even the major cities. Well, they probably haven't adopted, I think again, a lot of ours goes back to the way we eat and the things that we do, and so some of those areas in Blue Zones probably have different habits. They haven't adopted some of those bad habits.
Speaker 1:One of the things I did want to go back to was food. I happen to live with a wife that is very focused on food and nutrition and she's continued to make subtle changes. But like, for example, when I eat ice cream. I go to Dairy Queen or whatever. Like I'll get a little. I can feel it kind of in my throat when I have homemade ice cream. I don't.
Speaker 1:We have my wife's sister raises chickens and we have a plethora of naturally fresh eggs all the time. The yellow, the color of the egg, like I have no issue with eggs. I'm wondering, and I know there's highly processed, there's organic, but then there's some of this stuff where angels getting ready to take a class to learn how to make breads and they said back in the day a piece of bread could have all the nutrition you would need and it was so filling. But the way that bread is made now they strip out most of the nutrition and then they were doing a lot of different things. But if you mill your own bread, it has, it's just full of nutrition. And so over time we've made small shifts in the things that we eat and buy and some of the things that I'm putting, and so it's. I'm curious if you had natural eggs, if that would cause you any issues well, I think this is a two-pronged thing.
Speaker 2:Going back to your statement, I often wonder that, and the curiosity there stems from physiological performance, meaning like where did this? This person is able to do this. If you rewind 100,000 years, was their environment such that that adaptation was extremely advantageous? And I think you could think about that in the food realm as well. If you trace our lineage back 50,000 years, were we in an area where we got our sustenance from strictly game? We hunted and that's what we ate, because there are a lot of people out there that Jordan Peterson comes to mind and his family that it's all meat and they thrive off of that.
Speaker 2:It does pose a problem because, physiologically, if you're doing higher intensity endurance stuff, you do. It is shown that you know it is beneficial to have simple sugars, but like, that is super intriguing. And is Japan how it is? Because maybe there wasn't. You know they're not a melting pot, right? You know where, the, where, the, the, the population has remained fairly consistent over thousands and thousands of years. Maybe that's why, and so because of that, the foods they eat are not for their bodies not and not as far departed from where we at what, where we're at.
Speaker 2:But I think similarly, you hear a lot of discussions as well. Um, as you know rogan brings it up all the time if I eat pizza in america, I feel like crap the next day. All the time. If I eat pizza in America, I feel like crap the next day or that night. If I go eat pizza in Italy, where it's made, I'm fine.
Speaker 1:Right, I actually, I will actually second that. So I went to Rome two years ago and I ate pizza a lot and pasta a lot and I didn't have any issues. I felt like and with one with me, like my skin like breaks out when I like eat some of the things I'm not supposed to eat around here and my skin was in as good a condition as I can remember. And I actually had the same thing in China when I go to China. I think I mentioned this to you the things that we're eating, and I don't know if some of it's just I'm eating less allergens or it's cleaner food, but I have noticed and there's a lot of variables. That's why it's just so hard to control when you're traveling and I'm generally maybe only eating three meals I'm not hitting, there's not a pantry there that I'm hitting and snacking on. So there's a lot of different variables, but I have had some firsthand experiences where I've traveled to places very distant and experienced a different outcome from eating similar types of foods. And when I went to Italy, it was the same thing. You didn't feel so heavy, it was just, and there are a lot of ingredients and oils and things that we use that other countries don't allow you to use, and the further that Angel has gone down this rabbit hole we make our own dough for the pizza oven and the things that she's starting to uncover and put in. I'm just wondering. The other part is that you just won't know for years, right, it's like, how do you track it? It's really interesting. I mean, we've switched toothpaste. We don't use any toothpaste with fluoride in it. Um, which I was. You know I always laugh and give her a hard time, but I switched over and it's been great. And, um, she continues to alleviate some of those things that got introduced and then became the norm through the eighties and nineties. It was like how do we keep stuff on the shelf longer? How do we mass produce things? How do we do these things? And so some of the things and I don't know if that goes back to the melting pot thing is like we've adapted based on a lot of different things right, probably more mass production than anything. We've adapted and started doing things that we wouldn't have done in the past, and now the things we're ingesting from what we're using, from a deodorant and brushing our teeth and food is not even.
Speaker 1:I was sitting at dinner with a lady that worked at a ice cream, a big ice cream place, and she said there's a reason on the side of the box that calls it a frozen treat and not ice cream. She's like that's not ice cream. Like it says it's a frozen treat and not ice cream. She's like that's not ice cream. Like it says it's a frozen treat. So I think there's a perception, and I think a lot of it is food and nutrition and we don't have it all figured out. But I do know that we've started to make some pivots and I would be super interested to just try some of the things that you guys are sensitive to from an allergy standpoint and in different forms, prepped a different way, how your bodies would react under those situations, because I've seen for me personally, when I eat X from a fast food place and I eat X at home, completely different experiences, noticeably, in how I feel.
Speaker 1:I think to your point, there's two things at play. One is the efficiency. Like the last hundred years or so, our food has been predominantly focused on efficiency. How can we mass produce? How can we get it out there? How can we leave it more on the shelves for longer? So for supply chain reasons.
Speaker 1:I think that's been a large, large and part focus and it's been prioritized above, not that I mean the FDA has done an okay job. It's not that they've completely disregarded things. I mean they've tested things and when things, you know, I've had a positive correlation. But it's one of those things. It's definitely an innocent until proven guilty model. That's maybe the best way as I'm thinking about this out loud the best way to characterize this Innocent until proven guilty a little more than you've got to prove that the processing that you're doing is not negatively impacting the quality of the food, at least in terms of how we digest it and experience it, versus, hey, as long as it's not proven to cause issues, then it's kind of a free and clear. I feel like that's been more of our model. But, yeah, I think efficiency has been prioritized.
Speaker 1:But I also think there's this other thing at play and I'd be interested, like I know when I took our test and you guys have got to be similar, like a lot of our backgrounds in Netherlands, like that's kind of where we originated and where we are from, you know I would just wonder if we went back there or in that general vicinity, what type of research, analysis or findings there have been and maybe there's not enough resources there, or maybe they're there and they just haven't gotten here of some of the potential treatments.
Speaker 1:Like you hear a lot about these remedies and these homestowns and these sorts of things and you just wonder if they've been able to figure that out because they have such a concentration of people with the same physiology or very similar physiology. It's interesting. Or if we had. I mean, if you're from a certain place and they have been eating a certain diet type for hundreds of years, your body probably adapted to it sure, and now it's different or the people that didn't you know somehow you know, didn't make it that you know, didn't adapt to that I didn't want to call out.
Speaker 2:I can imagine some people are watching this and they're like you can't be serious talking about some of the things we're talking about, you know, like we're talking about real um, like a lot of people don't have these options or these choices. No, I think. I mean I think they do to a point, but like, um, you know, kind of to to what you said about the 80s and 90s and how things progressed, a lot of it from a financial necessity perspective, maybe Some of it from a greed perspective, maybe Like, hey, how do we make more money? We've got to, you know, oh, we've got to do it this way. And then, as the chasm has grown, you know, I think we've agreed, as we've talked through this in other podcasts, every aspect of lives is this way, everything the middle, it doesn't matter if it's fitness, it doesn't matter if it's financial, it doesn't matter if it's like it's going away, it doesn't matter if it's political, like they're just, and so, you know, when it comes to food, I feel like the bottom of it's getting worse and you know, those are able to focus on the top side of it.
Speaker 2:Like you know, we you and I talked about this, I think early on in the podcast about how difficult it is and to a little bit from a convenience perspective, like I don't want to feed my kids that stuff. You, to a little bit from a convenience perspective, like I don't want to feed my kids that stuff, that stuff. But, like you know, if we have three practices a night, maybe I'll take them to subway again. You know, I mean, I think in certain countries subways bread was, was, was, like not allowed to be classified as bread because it didn't contain, you know, contain the required nutrients or whatever. But I'm like, well, do they lose an hour and a half of sleep because we want to prep food? It's really a tough. So I want to make sure that.
Speaker 1:It doesn't have to. I think to your point, it doesn't have to be. If we hold some of these fast food places to a higher standard, it's going to level everyone up. I saw where Mars they're going to release M&Ms in like 2027, with no dyes or Skittles. They're going to take some of their massive products and they're going to have an alternative. It probably will be a dollar more, but they are going to release candy, which is still candy, but a different level of health of the candy. So if Subway did make all their breads that had all the nutrients and there was certain requirements and everyone had to level up, would it be more costly? Maybe, but all of a sudden you've taken the ground floor and you've leveled up. Well, I think that's the big challenge. Is the cost the cheaper the calorie, the worse the food and the cheaper the calorie the cheaper or the worst the food and the worst calorie the cheaper it is.
Speaker 2:And how far do you take, how far do you go down the rabbit hole? Because this is a Lane Norton comment Steak and shake oh, we're doing our stuff in beef tallow. His point is that's a media stunt, it's not the problem. I mean, it can be like the dives.
Speaker 2:Beef tallow is way better to cook your fries in yeah, dude, but people are eating a thousand extra calories a day. You know what I mean. You're 50 pounds overweight and you're worried about beef tallow. Stop eating. And I think that's where it's like as a society as a whole.
Speaker 2:If we're, if you're lucky enough to be lean and and I'm not saying you know, I think that's what I like about him. He does play contrarian a lot and it does get a little tiresome sometimes, but it's like oh yeah, we're not, we're not we're. You know, I'm gaining two pounds a month or three pounds a month, but, boy, I don't eat beef tallow or I don't have red dye. It's like, and I think a lot of these companies are seeing red dye's hot topic we're going to take dyes out of candy and then everybody's going to think we're good Steak and shake. We're not what we used to be. We've seen steak and shakes close all around here. We're going to tell people beef tallow, okay, it's this much better.
Speaker 2:But that's not the real problem. And I think maybe that was kind of what I was talking about earlier when I was saying like you know, um is the problem. You know, we've heard the, the, the vilification of fluoride. Right, there's, there's like there's that story out there, but is that as much of a problem as people not brushing their teeth or not going to the dentist? So for me it's just like I know that was kind of an aggressive statement, but for me it's like you see, these focus on these little things and you're missing the big problem.
Speaker 1:Well, maybe I would argue that a bunch of little things over time is the point and just like fitness, just like streaks, like running a mile a day makes a huge difference, and it's a 10-minute thing. If you're not eating certain oils and you're not using deodorant with aluminum and you're not using fluoride and you're like not doing red dyes, like if you do anything consistently over time, it could have massive change. I don't think there's this one big thing. Well, maybe the big thing is you should eat a 2000 calorie diet, like that's the thing, but like a bunch of these small things over a period of time could definitely add up and make a massive. I mean, how do we know what's real?
Speaker 1:though well, that's the thing is, it takes time to kind of play some of this out, but we've seen it the other way, where we have zero control over zero what's going in, and now we're having all these autoimmune diseases. We're having all these things happen and it's like, oh well, I'm not really sure why all this happened. Well, it could tie back to some of that. Well, yeah, I think that's the challenge is, everyone has a hypothesis right there of what the problem is, what?
Speaker 1:the problem is there are dozens of hypotheses, hypotheses out there of what it is, and so, um, I mean you. You literally would have to grow everything in your backyard and shower using some natural soap from the ground you know, in order to jump in the creek. I mean it's to the point, like a wifi, like wifi.
Speaker 2:Like.
Speaker 1:I remember doing this research. I was going to buy a house or buy a lot of land that was right next to a cell tower. And I remember doing some research on a European study where they put cows in proximity of cell towers, tested the quality and the volume of their milk production, Then they moved them away from the cell towers, also tested the quality of their volume and milk production and it was better at a distance from the tower. So there's this hypothesis that if you're in proximity of a cell tower and you laugh like it's a joke. But that's the same thing with the fluoride, it's the same thing with all the stuff. People shut off technology. I specifically don't put my router the way my router is. It's not where I sleep every night. I mean there's air quality stuff. Who's using air purifiers, Not. I mean there's just dozens of things. You want to talk about being in a bubble.
Speaker 2:Well, and then and then is it more from a? We know the mind is by far the strongest thing in our body. So we've seen, I've been exposed to a couple of people and and bless them, because what a terrible scenario to be in. But when you start to go down the rabbit hole and the mind convinces you there's no bottom bacteria, you know I've had plenty of friends who have been died, three in specific. Hey, you're allergic to mold and guess what? You can't see it. Then all of a sudden the mind's like I'm in fight or flight. And then they have their whole house gutted, all the molds removed from the walls. They're still sick.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's radio waves. You can't be by cell towers. We're in a situation right now. We live in an area that has very poor cell coverage, to the point where if I lose my internet I can't get a hold of xfinity because the cell coverage is that bad in my neighborhood I have to leave my neighborhood.
Speaker 2:Well, we're struggling to put up a cell tower anywhere because there's a particular person in the neighborhood who's sensitive to. Maybe she is, maybe she isn't. There is that movie better call saul, or the series better call saul, where his brother lives in a house that is wallpapered with aluminum because he is sensitive to electromagnetic waves, and that's not bs. There are people and you can find plenty of document documentaries on the internet that live in the middle of nowhere because they believe they're sensitive to xyz, and so I think it's just like weird combination of okay, how much? Because there are plenty of examples of people that lived during the. You know, you look back when ciggy was in the hospitals, ciggy the tobacco guy, and they're smoking in hospital rooms I was just gonna say and there are people that lived through that and all the BS and hit a hundred in 2010.
Speaker 1:And so it's like but because you can't, let me ask you this question, because you don't know.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Does that mean you don't do research and you don't try?
Speaker 2:I say I say no, but I also say that, like, I think there's this you definitely want to do research and try, but it's it's.
Speaker 2:I think we still as a society are evolving to understand how to consume the data, the way it's presented.
Speaker 2:Because if you listen to everything Gary Brekka says and you take it as gospel because he says it so confidently and you listen to, you know how many of these videos are out there where you know people have said for years, aspartame and Diet Coke kills you, causes cancer.
Speaker 2:And then you got the guy who looks at the study and he's like, yeah, if you drank 75 Diet Cokes a day, then you would hit the threshold needed, based on the study that they did and the controls of that study, to cause cancer using aspartame. And so it's like you see what people do and Lane does this a lot and again, I hate to keep going back to him because I don't want to be the guy that's going to one person for all of my. But you look at the controls with with you know because, excuse me, with which this study was done, and you start to realize that and I'm being hypothetical, right, but you know, yes, if you eat 700 red Skittles a day, red dye is going to make an a massive impact on it, you know, and so that's my concern, that's my. My uh uh comment is go deeper than list, than hearing it from one guy here, like really, look at.
Speaker 1:It goes. At the end of the day, it goes back to quality of life, right? So if you are playing it safe with wifi, there's a quality of life sacrifice you're making to go without wifi in your home in order to reduce the radio waves. From a cost perspective, if you're going to eat all the things that don't have any sort of dyes, artificial preservatives, whatever you're spending probably double the amount on groceries and food than you would otherwise. If you're going to prepare all your own food and grow it in your own garden, there's a significant amount of time that you're spending doing that that you're not spending doing other things, whether that's being with your kids, whether that's working to get more financial resources, whatever it is.
Speaker 2:And you need to own a house with land.
Speaker 1:Well, that too.
Speaker 2:That's the start of it.
Speaker 1:That too, or if you're farming or those sorts of things. So I think at the end of the day it comes back to what's the quality of life trade-off of. Hey, I'm going to take a guess that it's this out of the 50 things. But, to your point, we'll know in 100 years, right. Your point, we'll know in a hundred years, right. And then there'll be another list of things. But in a hundred years we're going to look back. I mean, we look back with a little bit of. There's a word for it, and I wish I could remember what it is, but it's a word that describes the fact that we think we're smarter than all the previous generations, something that we're not.
Speaker 1:Something. Yeah, it's a great, it's a real thing. And we look back and we're like, can you believe that people thought smoking was like good for you? Like there were doctors smoking in these ads and it was like you know. And of course there's that near-term benefits of the lowered anxiety. That's one thing we haven't talked about yet. Stress and anxiety you want to talk about for quality of life. For me it's not so much fitness ability to do that. I'd like to take the edge off because I run a little higher strung. Naturally, I don't. You know, alcohol could potentially do that a little bit. But like, at some point it'd be great if there was something that was legal that I could take, maybe some sort of pill that just took the edge off a little bit psychologically, like that sort of quality of life stuff.
Speaker 2:But htc yeah, well again, uh, we are going to look.
Speaker 1:We are going to look back in 100 years and we're going to say this there's going to be the smoking of our generation. I don't know if it's going to be screens, I don't know if it's going to be wi-fi, but that gender, two or three, you know generations down the road. They're gonna look back. Can you believe these bunch of idiots? And they're going to look back. Can you believe these bunch of idiots?
Speaker 2:And they're going to point back to because someone's done the study right. Someone's done the study.
Speaker 1:Generational snobbery isn't that what you said? Yeah, maybe it is, maybe it is, it's something along those lines. But someone's going to look back because everyone's done the studies to make their hypothesis about the 150 things that could cause cancer or whatever cause a long term, and they're going to look back and it'll be interesting to see what it is. It's probably going to be a concentrated few of things two, three, maybe four things that caused all of this and we just don't know which ones they are.
Speaker 2:I saw yesterday that, since alcohol consumption has been measured in the US, this is the lowest it's ever been.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did see that 53% of people believe that alcohol consuming alcohol more than once a week is bad for you.
Speaker 2:What's crazy is that you're starting to see these people that you know in their lives were massive drinkers. Joe Rogan, lance Armstrong, like that, were partiers. They don't drink anymore, like they're all hanging it up, but they're doing different drugs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, maybe, but you know what the problem is. The human body is so damn good that it masks.
Speaker 1:It's unbelievable at masking the impacts of these toxins and poisons, and so it is so good whether it can adapt people who smoke, who live to be in their 90s and and you see people and and that's all, that's all of our right, that's the logic we're doing in our head, like, yeah, I know they say that meat's bad for you. One documentary came out that says meat, you know, and said, okay, meat or chicken. It's like, well, what do you do you want to be shot to death or hung to death? And it's like that's, that was the two you know comparisons to eating meat because of all the crap in them and it's it's disappointing that we don't have more insight or information.
Speaker 2:Well, and it goes back. Do you remember, nassim? Did you read Anti-Fragile, either of you? Yes, part of it. Yeah, that goes back to. That Is our superpower, it's adaptability and like you know, because, again, the more you take away, the more fragile you become, but like I don't know, man, it's such a conundrum. It's like you know, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's a blessing and a curse well, one thing that's bothering me a little bit is I feel like there's a little bit and tj, I think maybe I'm feeling it from you there's an undertone of we just can't possibly know, and all the studies out there are somewhat conflicting. So why do anything at all like, why why try to make a, a shift here, there, because really you don't know that it's red dye, or you really don't know that it's fluoride, or you really. And so there's this like it's just the quality of life trade-off well, but there's not a quality trade-off, whether or not you want to say that or not, by not going to fluoride toothpaste.
Speaker 1:Fluoride, that's not a trade-off there is. Fluoride helps build enamel. Fluoride helps restore and rebuild enamel and so without that there could be some long-term implications from a tooth decay or overall dental health perspective. Whether or not that's researched now, it could be worth a trade-off, because if fluoride does happen to be a toxin, but the same thing with the cost of food, with the time to prepare it, those are trade-offs. So to your point, I think let's continue to move towards it, but we've got to. Well, and that's back to my point is everyone has their own hot button, right, the thing that they're hyper-focused on, that they've decided is their thing, that's the worst thing ever, and they're going to eliminate it. And then they're going to be the best and they're going to tell everyone else how they're the worst because they've got the best solution. And this is the problem.
Speaker 1:But for people and for families, everyone probably is naturally dispositioned to something and to try to attain that quality of life, people are making changes and doing different things, and I think that should be encouraged. I think it should be encouraged for people to explore and to try different things and try to find that quality of life and make different and not feel like it's not going to make a difference at all and it's all just like it's all for not, because we really don't know. Like you go back to the, if I ate a cookie every day, I would gain 15 pounds over the course of a year, right, and so like doing something very small every day could have a negative impact or could have a positive impact, and so I do believe you should try shifts and like you're doing in your diet and some of this has come because you've had to, or you're doing with alcohol to create different outcomes. Now, whether you can monitor that outcome and remember what you felt like six months ago versus now and be like this is a great thing, I don't know. But there are some things that I think we have adopted as a society that there are lots of research that would say like this isn't a good thing.
Speaker 1:Like aluminum in your deodorant putting aluminum directly in your body aluminum's tied to memory loss and other things is probably not a great thing. Does it cost a little bit more? I know all the major brands now offer something without it. Um, so, and I'm just using that as an example. Maybe that's not the case, but I want to encourage our listeners that I think going down this journey, um, and I do think what you're trying to say is look, don't just trust one source. Look at a lot of different things, but we may not know, and we're all sitting here in 30 years and we're all hypothesizing on who feels the best and why.
Speaker 2:Well, I think this ties back to comments both of you have made. Don't trust a word. We say. To comments both of you have made, don't trust a word, we say Don't, we don't know, but but try for yourself. If you feel after eating Dairy Queen, if you feel it in your neck, don't eat dairy.
Speaker 2:Listen to your body, explore these things. If you believe that you know, if you're concerned about aluminum and deodorant, try to get as as base level as you can, try to find the study and look at the things. And if you don't understand it you know, always be careful with AI and how you prompt and yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, all the disclaimers, but like there there was something out there that can help you understand it at the basic level. And if you feel that like I'm experiencing this and it's tied to this and maybe I'm a person that is a habitual, it needs like a habitual shower, like I want to be clean, so I shower three times a day and I'm putting deodorant on every time and I'm experiencing these things. And then you go and you look and you do the research and you try that and you see if it solves your problem. That's what I would encourage.
Speaker 2:Um, my perspective, I would discourage listening to a Rogan guest or whatever, whatever, whatever that's saying, hey, if you do this, if you don't, if you wake up, huberman, right, hey, you got to wake up every morning and you got to get out in the sun in 30 seconds so that you set your circadian rhythm. And then you need to go in and you need to do sauna so you can turn those heat shock proteins on. And then you need to do your cold plunge because you need to. You know it does these. And then you need to eat X number of meals a day and they have to exclude all like, do, like you're right the curiosity.
Speaker 2:Explore what works for you, try to figure it out what works for your family and execute against those things. And if you are taking somebody's advice online, go as deep as you can, because I think one of the detriments to this is you could be walking around in a bubble because you're listening to everybody that thinks they have this silver bullet solution to your problem. Like you said earlier, the customization is the most important piece of this. And and and again to your point, not everything works for everybody because we're all so physiologically different.
Speaker 1:And I do think there are probably some things that are higher ROI optimizations, right. So, like the deodorant thing, I made that switch eight years ago and now I'm maybe paying 12 instead of $8 for something that lasts months, right, so it's costing me an extra nickel or 10 cents a day to try this deodorant and as long as I'm not, you know, it's doing what it's supposed to do for me. Jen, generally like, why not Same thing with shampoo? When I looked at shampoo, it's something I'm putting on my body every single day. I have gone to a shampoo, that again. And and soap that? Maybe. It's costing me an extra 15 cents a day, right, to use something that doesn't have these cause it's a low cost To me it's a higher, why, if it happens to be that I'm you know, or even if it doesn't, I'm not burying myself over the course of of that, um, over the course of that experience or investment.
Speaker 1:I guess the other thing that we haven't talked about is sleep. So we may find I have been I mean for me and things I've observed and experienced over my life, and I think we potentially have talked about this in the past. I'm not so sure that our clocks. There's not an element of our clocks that are ticking more as in a time awake as opposed to overall duration time, because our body's so efficient when it sleeps that I'm, you know I don't want it wouldn't shock me. I would guess to say someone who sleeps six hours a night. You know I don't want it wouldn't shock me.
Speaker 1:I would guess to say someone who sleeps six hours a night. And again, it's going to vary by person, always varies by person. But someone who sleeps six hours a night versus eight hours a night might die sooner or whatever might be the cause of death. Depending on that, what is if it's aging? In particular, natural aging might kick in sooner due to lack of sleep, and so that's the other thing. Is like some of these things right, whether it's taken more time to prepare food or whatever financial resources are required? That, to me, sleep's one of the biggest things. If you're not getting eight hours of sleep for me personally may not be for someone else. I know people go off four, five, six hours of sleep and they're fine. Now, time will only tell and we'll probably never know if that actually cut their life short in a sense. But there's just a lot of variables to optimize for Sleep's an interesting one, because I think a lot of times I know there's different variabilities for different people, but also by different ages, like like old people don't sleep much.
Speaker 1:They don't sleep much and I better classify old people. I mean that could you could say we're, we're old at four, 44, but there's different phases of life. But like mom um, before she passed away and and dad, they're in their seventies, they'll, they sleep in and they start taking naps. I was laughing One of our friends the other day. He goes like what, what? At what age did you start doing the like afternoon doze off nap, and it's like mid fifties. It's like you know you sit back in the chair and and then you know you get 30 minutes. And so it'd be interesting that I think during some of the active and some of the younger years and depending on the phase of life you're in, sleep could potentially vary by age as well as by person. You know it's interesting about sleep and I'll just say my own observation that I found to be very interesting and this is a hypothesis of mine of how people get there. You know, when I get my best sleep, then I have my most active, longest days.
Speaker 1:So if I've got a 16, 18 hour, call it an 18 hour day and I am incredibly active. My REM sleep, my deep sleep, my light sleep, even all the numbers are high. And when I am more just, like I don't do a lot, my REM sleep is down, my deep sleep is down, my light sleep is down. I have more trouble, I have more issues with latency, with falling asleep, and so my hypothesis is as we get older, we obviously are physically limited to stress our bodies and that requires our body to get less sleep.
Speaker 1:I mean, even if you guys have had nights where you stayed up all night to get less sleep, I mean, even if you guys have had nights where you stayed up all night your body, the depth of your sleep the next day, is incredible. It knows that it needs to restore itself and it almost goes into that mode where not only will you sleep 12 or 14 hours if you aren't woken up, but your deep sleep and REM sleep compounds and it's crazy how much it naturally does that and I've found times where I sleep eight hours two or three nights in a row, which is a lot for me. I try to be in the seven to eight range, but a lot of times in the six and a half seven of actual sleep, not in bedtime, but then my deep sleep and my REM sleep trails off.
Speaker 2:So my hypothesis is, as we get older and there's less activity, that we slowly require less sleep and it's kind of a downward spiral I mean, I think it goes back to the earlier comment around you know that because you measure your sleep and so you know, I think, that figuring out what works for you, measuring that, looking at that, is really important. Um, so I would encourage you know, to look at those types of things and then again make the decision on on life. You know, on life, uh, as it relates to kind of your life choices, you know, I think we we've, you know, I figured out through monitoring my body that, um, if I, if I feel sleep coming on and I do something like get on a screen, that could I can be up an extra hour and a half. If I feel sleep coming on and I do something like get on a screen, I could be up an extra hour and a half. If I feel it coming on and I'm like I'm tired, it's time to shut it off.
Speaker 2:Or we've all talked about eating in proximity to sleep. We've talked about exercise in proximity to sleep and how it can affect it fairly greatly and how you get better recovery when you do these certain things. Again, measure it for yourself and execute against that. But yeah, I think that ties back into you found something that seems to make sense and I think, logically, it makes sense, um, I think a lot of times what happens with people who exercise vigorously is that's all they do.
Speaker 2:Like you go out for an hour and a half run and that's it for the day. You're not. You know somebody who is has a physically demanding job, who is actually physically moving for eight to 10 hours. It's a different kind of exhaustion, just doing everything in one fell swoop and then laying around for the next six or seven hours. I can see days like that for me personally, where that probably does affect my sleep. All I did was run at nine, nine to 10 or 10 to 12 or whatever, and then I don't do anything and I'm not as exhausted as I should be.
Speaker 1:Would you guys agree with the statement moderation, everything in moderation. As you think about everything we've talked about and you think about the thing and the body's unbelievable, unique ability to adapt to things, that moderation of most things is probably a healthy approach, if not, um, even if it's unhealthy, it it it would seem to regulate. You would be able to regulate that pretty man, I hope so.
Speaker 2:I mean that I think that's the dream kind of being able to do what you want to do when you want to do it, um, or doing the things you know you need to do, and it's like the balance right. Like half of those moderate things is going to be aiming up. It's going to be hard things, you have to, but you got to do those. And then the, the, the, uh, the things that are we look at is like rewarding dopamine hits. You could do those too, but like don't go overboard one of the hidden hour screens.
Speaker 2:Cool, not nine. You want to run? Uh, you know you want to have a couple miles a day, fine, but don't run 50 a day like or whatever, like I dude. If that was it, maybe that is it.
Speaker 1:That's phenomenal, hell yeah I would say that's one. I would agree with that. I think moderation generally seems to be pretty safe. Your body is good enough to adapt, depending on who you are, um for sure. The other thing that TJ mentioned, though, that I think is critical to this whole thing, is pay attention and track whatever data you can, and pay attention. I woke up. I had probably 10 years there kind of late college and through my late 30s where I woke up almost every day and had like real tight stomach tightness where it took like five minutes and then it would finally loosen up and I don't know it was the way I sleep or I ate late or what it was, but I just ignored it and I didn't do anything about it. And finally, I think, just in terms of paying attention and getting into some of the food sensitivity stuff and the diets, I think the best thing that you could possibly do is just track data. Now I say that they'll find out that these devices we're wearing on our bodies are slowly killing us.
Speaker 1:But I think the more you can track and pay attention um, the better.
Speaker 1:It's.
Speaker 1:Just as, as you guys have been talking, I've just been trying to listen and soak this in and it feels like an overabundance of chemicals could be radiation, could be waves, just like, and I think we all struggle to do stuff in moderation.
Speaker 1:It's like, well, if, boy, if I have a coffee, I have one every day and then I realized that starts to not do what I used to do, and so now I have a little bit more coffee, I have two cups of coffee a day, and then I'm, and then just it's this building thing of because we're so habitual in nature that you know we do the same things day in and day out and it's hard not to form patterns and to be random, whether it's good or bad patterns, and it would seem that our bodies have the ability to work out and work through different chemicals you put in your body, but not having the ability to shut stuff off and to be able to adapt, like if you try different things and do different things, your body seems like it can recover pretty well. It's just over a long period of time it appears to struggle.
Speaker 2:You just stay disciplined and stay vigilant. You know, monitor and stay. I think discipline's a big thing. You know it's very interesting. But yeah, I think we've landed on a pretty nice conclusion.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, so, to put a bow on it, none of us up here have the abbreviation doctor in front of our names. So a lot of debate and hypothesis around the things we've experienced or the things we're going through, the approaches and maybe some of the strategies we've experienced, or the things we're going through, the approaches and maybe some of the strategies we've taken, both from a fitness and a health perspective. I do feel like this is going to be a very important and big topic as we move forward with all the research in medicine and all the things that are available to us now. It's just important to pay attention to your body. It's important to try different things and make decisions that ultimately, are going to give you a quality of life that you want. And for me in particular and I'm probably speaking for you guys as well the longevity of life and health is important, and I know we all want to be here as long as possible. No silver bullet, no roadmap, but everything in moderation. Thanks for tuning in.