The Dailey Edge Podcast
Join hosts Trent, TJ, and Todd Dailey as they explore the intersections of technology, culture, fitness, and personal growth. Through engaging discussions and personal anecdotes, the trio dives into topics ranging from childhood gaming nostalgia and cutting-edge fitness tech to the pursuit of happiness and lifestyle choices. Whether reminiscing about epic gaming marathons, sharing tips for staying on the forefront of fitness trends, or unraveling the complexities of modern life, The Dailey Edge delivers thoughtful insights, lively debates, and relatable stories for listeners of all walks of life.
The Dailey Edge Podcast
Episode 17: The Crisis of Connection: Why Men Struggle to Build and Maintain Community
We explore the critical importance of male friendship and community after the structured environments of school and college disappear from our lives. Vulnerability and shared accomplishment emerge as two key elements that make men's groups succeed, while time constraints and shifting family roles create new challenges.
• Male friendship becomes more challenging after educational environments end
• Community and connection are primary contributors to longevity and wellbeing
• Successful men's groups often form through early vulnerability or shared accomplishment
• Today's men face greater time constraints and family responsibilities than previous generations
• Social media creates surface-level connections that fail to provide deep fulfillment
• Technology enables constant comparison that can damage authentic relationships
• Geographic proximity plays a significant role in maintaining long-term friendships
• Building community requires consistency, intentionality and overcoming initial discomfort
• Previous generations had more structured spaces for male gathering and bonding
• Children benefit when parents prioritize community and model these connections
Join us for the Fullmow 50K on May 31st or connect with Todd for training runs if you're in Grant County and looking to build community while preparing for your first ultramarathon.
Welcome to the Daily Edge, where we bring you the latest insights, opinions and thought-provoking conversations to give you that competitive edge in life, business and beyond. Let's go. The Daily Edge. I'm here with my two brothers, as always TJ Daly and Todd Daly and today is going to be an interesting topic. I feel like we started with that. Today is going to be interesting. We're going to talk about community, especially in males.
Speaker 1:I don't know if we want to call us middle-aged, but when you get outside of high school, then if you don't go to college, or maybe you do outside of college there's a point in time where male friendship and companionship becomes challenging. I think there are certain things that we do in life that bring men together Watching sports or maybe playing sports. Those are things that we do a lot more often when we're younger, but I really, as you get older, I think there's something that's really important with community. I was talking to a chiropractor one time a guy that I respect and I said what do you attribute longevity of life to? And he said really, the number one thing is community. It's like having people to do life with over a long period of time. So I'm fascinated with forming and keeping groups of men together, and so I would love one of you I don't know which to jump in here and I would say you both have communities that you're a part of. Talk to me a little bit about how you've been able to establish your male communities, what you think is important and how that's playing a role in your life fail, and I think in a lot of cases and I think this works fairly well for females, and this is why this typically more of the model is like hey, let's get together around a shared interest and let's try and sustain a community around that I think a lot of times that requires a level of vulnerability and or a sharing of feelings that is not natural for men.
Speaker 1:I will say the men's groups that I have had success with or that have formed really, really well, hinged on one of two things One, someone in that community being very vulnerable early on. That created a depth of connection that was then built upon over time. I remember my Exodus group from. Exodus group is basically a church group that forms over a basically we do kind of a 90-day program leading up into Easter, and you should talk a little bit about that program Sure In 2022, when I did that a second time.
Speaker 1:We had a couple of guys that right out of the gate just got extremely vulnerable with the group and the way that that accelerated formation relative to the other groups I've been a part of was really, really impressive and that.
Speaker 1:So that's something that stuck with me and I think that makes a lot of sense because naturally I don't think men are as vulnerable and so I think that's a barrier to community formation. The other thing is around accomplishment. When a group of another group I think of the other group that I would say is really really strong, that I'm a part of it's around kind of doing hard things and or accomplishing things together and getting a shared bond through that. Sometimes that's a lot of the case with fraternities. That's how a lot of fraternity bonds are formed, because you go through pledgeship together, you go through that difficult experience together and that builds bonds. The men's groups that I have been a part of that haven't lasted, that have failed, which there's been plenty have missed both of those components, which there's been plenty, have missed both of those components, and so I guess over time that's the pattern that I've identified.
Speaker 2:What I've seen and what I see because my groups are more rollercoaster-ish. It takes a lot of effort and I don't think it's something that we naturally do. I'm terrible at it. I've recognized that over the years that rarely am I the person to reach out to do something. Luckily, you know, I've got people and it goes back to.
Speaker 2:I think there's some like-mindedness and I think one of the things that makes it difficult today is there's differing ideas and expectations around what a man is. You know, if you think back to I think about our grandfather you know scotch and cigars, like that was kind of it, you know, and you got together and you did those things. Or you know you participated in those types of or you were part of. Like you went to a. You know whether it was a club for veterans um, escaping me the different names that those, those particular locations have but there were. There were the arrow club, right. So there were a lot of clubs back then that were exclusive to men and you just go there and drink and smoke cigars and talk. Um, you know, after work that's not as prevalent anymore because I think we feel like there's more expected of us so we're not able to. We don't believe we're able to allot that amount of time. You know, I think there's pressure in that regard.
Speaker 1:There's pressure in that regard the other thing that, um, you know, do you think kids, like you just said, there's more expected of us? I would arguably say that we're more involved in kids lives than maybe past generations. Um, so some of this could be time right, it's having the availability to do it, but some of it is like men are most men are more engaged in family time or they prioritize that more. Do you think that's had an impact on connection and keeping up with other men?
Speaker 2:I think in my life it's been huge. You know, one of the things that we've always wanted to do is have a weekend run club, but it's just there's too much. There's too much prioritized around, you know. You see, the run clubs that do exist. People are normally in another season or stage of life where their kids are in college or out of the house. You know and I don't fault any of my friends, uh, for prioritizing their kids events. I do the same things at times but, yes, I've seen that, I think, personally. You know, really throw a wrench into doing things consistently with people and then it goes back to it requires that much more effort to reach out consistently and sometimes you will have that person in the community that's really good at doing that, but it makes it definitely, I think, makes it more difficult.
Speaker 1:Yeah, From a deep sorry. I'll add one, one more flavor to that guilt whether it's kid guilt or your spouse is like you're going to. I mean, our dad played cards twice, twice a week, like it wasn't even a, it was a non-negotiable for mom. It's like I'm playing card Monday and Wednesdays, I'm out at eight o'clock, I'll help you get the kids to bed. Peace, I'm gone. Like I'm not sure I would feel or have the freedom to do that. Is that?
Speaker 1:Another component of getting together with men is just the guilt of well from your spouse or from your kids or anyone else. I think it can be made a priority around those things. I think for me, I mean cause I think they you know, I think we were, you know the basis of this is that I think it is a little bit easier for females to form some of those groups. Um, and I think they're under some of easier for females to form some of those groups and I think they're under some of the same time pressures. So I don't know that it's necessarily a shortage of time. I mean, certainly there was a point in time when I think it was more socially acceptable for men to be less or participate less in the household or family, kid related activities. I think it's probably been a positive trend that there's been more involvement there.
Speaker 1:For me, I think a lot of this is too it's around the depth of the connection, because even you know we were talking with dad earlier and he's talking about you can play golf with guys and you you can do certain activities with guys, but a lot of times it's a very surface level connection or you're just participating in an activity together versus getting into a depth, which I think that's where a lot of the fulfillment comes from in relationship is when you can get underneath the surface. And I know we've all been through phases in our lives where we had a hundred different acquaintances and it was very surface level conversation, maybe a little deeper than how's the weather and how are you doing. But now it's this type of stuff with a much smaller group of you, know you're pontificating on different things of you, know you're pontificating on different things, and if you don't have like family, whether that's siblings or close cousins or whatever, I just I think it can be very difficult to get to a level of depth that provides that fulfillment.
Speaker 2:But do you guys think that men just don't really make it a priority? Like you know, family's more important, providing is more important. You know, last on the list is calling somebody to hang out, for whatever reason. Is that a problem too?
Speaker 1:I would say yeah, I would say for sure, at least for me personally. I can't speak for others, and I think some are more wired to organize things socially and I think some are more wired to organize things socially, but I would say, in prioritizing it and even just valuing it in general, I don't know that men are naturally oriented to look at things and say, gosh, I really miss that connection. I really need that connection or community in my life. It's like nope, I'm going to plow through today and I'm going to get through tomorrow and I'm just going to keep grinding and grinding, and grinding. So I think that some of that disposition is probably not productive. One of the things that is interesting to me is it's like you said in a prior episode you don't know how good you feel until something triggered when you were having issues with your foot and it got worse over time, you took some medicine and then it was like, oh my gosh, I didn't know I could feel this good. I wonder if that's very similar with connection.
Speaker 1:I have individuals in my life, men in my life that I do life with. Obviously I have my brothers, but I have other people that I go to. We've talked about life coaches and I think there's a couple of different components here. I think there's community for men to do life together, to talk about the centerpieces of our lives, whether that's our faith, our fitness, our families. But I also think there's a component of life coaching of where you have someone that's going to hold you accountable to the things that you say are important. How do you like for men and there's been times in my life where I got to do it all, it's all me, I'm going to take it on and I'm just kind of locked in, it's me against the world mentality Do you feel like having those relationships and those people are super important? Do you guys experience that in your life? How do you navigate that?
Speaker 2:guys experience that in your life. How do you, how do you navigate that? I, I, I you know the way you started that thought. I was actually having that exact same thought at the exact same time, meaning that this morning is a good example.
Speaker 2:Um, I've been doing a lot of running on my own and, as everybody knows, by this point in time it's a big centerpiece of my life and I yesterday text a couple of buddies. I'm like, hey, are you guys still doing your Thursday morning run club? And I went out there and I did that. It was just me and one other guy this morning. But after I was finished it was like, wow, I miss having conversations out there. I like this group of guys, I like their perspective. He's a good listener, or it was great this morning and I find that, you know, after I go run with you know, I have a group of four or five guys Caleb, unicorn, whatever, jr that after I run with them I'm like really grateful I did and we had a good conversation and they're.
Speaker 2:You know, it's very cathartic, but again, like you said, it's kind of out of sight, out of mind, and there's at this on behalf of everybody to make things work. And I've struggled with feeling like I'm getting taken advantage of in terms of bending my life for others and feeling like I'm not getting it back. So that's been something I've struggled with over the years, and I'm sure other people feel that way too, because men are so bad at this. I think there can be some level of resentment, which sounds strange. You think of resent me. You think more of your relationship with your wife or somebody else close to you Um, that's normally where that word is thrown around, uh, when you're having issues in those relationships. But anyways, uh, you get resentful like, well, you know, I'm bending over backwards to do things with this person or to do whatever, whatever, and it seems like a one way street, and more often than not it's probably unintentional, because guys just don't do that. But it doesn't mean it. It doesn't mean that it makes you feel any less off, you know.
Speaker 1:So that's kind of my biggest commentary there yeah, I think to your point and I would go as far to say that it's about a lack of prioritization of fulfillment. I don't know that I go through my days thinking about how could I be more fulfilled, but after some of these interactions, I mean that's probably the best way to describe it it's a fulfillment. It is a really good feeling. You haven't necessarily accomplished anything, or maybe it wasn't productive. Certainly you can do things together and multitask in that regard, but I would say it really is that interest and I would go as far to say this is a broader problem about prioritizing the important versus the urgent. What I mean by that is, I think we're running around solving for all the urgent things in our day. Right, we've got to get here, get there, get this done, get that done, get this kid to here and get this kid to there. All these different things. And there's a lot of important aspects of our life to keep ourselves in a good place, and I would say a lot of the spiritual investment is in a similar vein. I don't care whether you're doing meditation or you're doing yoga or you're going to mass, you're going to adoration or something like that. Like those are similar things where it's like it's fulfilling. You never walk out of church I don't, at least I haven't in a while and thought, well, that was a waste of time. You know shouldn't have done that. But it's not necessarily at the top of the list either, and some of that is.
Speaker 1:I think we've talked about this. At times you go back to our evolutionary wiring. We didn't have time to focus on this sort of stuff. It was like you need to be doing something to make sure you survive the day and that you're alive tomorrow, and so I think that's some of that internal wiring of just being productive and making sure we're making progress, and so some of this new era again compared to our evolutionary wiring of, hey, let's focus on ourselves, let's make sure that we are fulfilled and we have the right connection and we're investing spiritually. I think for me, the biggest challenge is continuing to prioritize that, and that was honestly a lot of what Eternize was based on and founded on was this I'm just running around like a chicken with my head cut off, chasing my tail, trying to get all the things done, cross everything off the list, go, go, go, go, go, go go. And it's just like you know, reset and make sure that the important things are getting done.
Speaker 1:Do you feel like it's happenstance or that we have found community? And what would you say to somebody that I don't really have anybody at this point in my life I'm 30, I'm 40, and I have no real male figure or connection and they want to have more of that in their lives. Where would you go? Where would you start? I personally would say shared interests. I mean, identify those things that you're passionate about, that you're interested in, and I would start there. I think for me that is and I mean I think spiritual is a great place to start, because I think there's naturally, there's a quality and a characteristic of someone else who's interested in that that's going to make them more predisposed, I think, to that same interest and having that connection and community and vulnerability, even, I think, and humility, even I think. So I would say that. But then I would look at shared interests, whether it's exercise or video games or whatever you might be interested in, I think, somehow finding your way into a community. There is a great place to start.
Speaker 2:I would agree there's got to be a lot of trepidation and fear there. I get that. We've talked about the Seattle stories numerous times. I was at a point in my life where I really wasn't comfortable, which is crazy, counter to the way high school was lived. But I really wasn't comfortable and it took somebody else it was you, but it could have been anybody to get me out and to start exposing myself to just people in general.
Speaker 2:You know, and I think that with the way you know, if somebody is lonely they're still typically going to have connection to the outside world through technology, and when that's the only connection you have, you probably look at the world a lot differently than it really is. You know, cam running around the perimeter of the United States is a great example. You know, one of the things that he accomplished doing that was was he? He accomplished justifying that his perception of the world as a good place was right and that. You know, he, from small town to small town, everybody he met, was just as kind as could be and were willing to take him in. People offered him. You know, from small town to small town, everybody he met was just as kind as could be and were willing to take him in. People offered him you know their couches and didn't even know the guy.
Speaker 2:And I think, though, if the lens you're looking at the world through is a Reddit forum or a Facebook post or something else, it can be very scary, you know, because your perception of the world is that everybody is angry, everybody's out to get you, everybody's super polarized because people can be keyboard warriors and can be more confrontational.
Speaker 2:So I think I would encourage people to recognize it isn't like that. 99% of the time, someone would not say that to your face, and 99% of the time it was probably done in to your face, and 99 percent of the time it was probably done in a fit of emotional, a lack of emotional self-control, and they probably really don't even feel that strongly about it. They just wanted to win an argument or whatever. So put that fear aside. Find somebody with shared interests, find a group with a shared interest. That interest that's a positive way to use social media. Right Is? There are ways to connect with groups and get out there in person. It could be playing cards, it could be playing golf, whatever, and I think once you start that process, you'll slowly discover that there's a lot more good out there than is perceived.
Speaker 1:I also think it's not something that happens overnight too. So this is another thing You've got to manage your expectations. It's not something where you're going to go and go and try something and the first time you talk to somebody or attend some sort of group of shared interest, you're all of a sudden going to have this like lifelong community of people to do life with. I think for me, a lot of mine, uh, connections and relationships have started on just like one-on-ones, just like a breakfast, uh, and I think that's a simple way to also start, just like I think it's very easy to say hey, let's catch up sometime, be great to grab breakfast or grab lunch and these. Over time you have these one-on-ones and it creates these kind of tentative networks and you start to have connections with people right, even if they're surface level that then start to connect in different ways, because you have lunch with two different people who are really connected and then you might get invited to a poker night or you might get invited to do something with a group. So I think sometimes it's just putting yourself out there, as difficult as that is, and as I say that here knowing that there's so much of my life that I would have not entertained that, I would have not gone out there and done that. But having the fortune of being right place, right time on a couple of occasions and getting over that hump and putting myself around someone who has kind of broken down some of those barriers for me, I think I have a lot of fruit in some of those meals. Why do you think that's good stuff? Why do you think friendships at least in my experience think friendships, at least in my experience males from high school or college tend to fade over time. How many friends do you have from high school? How close are you Same with college? And why do you think someone that was maybe at one point in time one of those people and now isn't? You know, I think it depends on how you define it.
Speaker 1:For me, I will tell you that my best friend I've got a few of them, but probably my best friend that goes as far back as I can remember is Brad Norris. So we've been best friends basically since third grade. Now it looks different. Now we don't communicate. I mean, we text back and forth every couple of weeks or week and so it's not like we're connecting and bonding and spending a lot of time together on a regular basis. He's got a family, I've got a family. But I know if I needed something I could call Brad up at any time and that would be there.
Speaker 1:So I think what's interesting is how you characterize that Cause I would say there was a point in time where Brad and I were spending a lot more time together. We're playing golf together. Either we were going through school or even thereafter. You know we were spending. We didn't have all the priorities we have, but I would say that's still a long relationship and even Ricky Kiley is probably very similar. You know it's a long-term relationship, that's 20, 30 plus years. It might look a little different, but I would say that connection still persists.
Speaker 2:For me it's geographical proximity. Everybody I went to high school with moved to a different state. I think the closest to us is Ohio, so I have one friend like that. That's a couple hours away, two, three hours away, but geographical proximity. And then in certain circumstances we still have a lot in common. I mean, I think all of the friends save one from high school. There was a group of seven of us, uh, have kids there, you know, all do similar things. They all are, I think, taking relatively similar approaches to life. We're all in pretty wildly different industries but at the same time, you know, we still get together, probably every other year. Um, so it's still there.
Speaker 2:But I think geographical proximity is a big thing. And then, yeah, not all of the nuances of our, our lives line up, um, and there's not. There isn't the same level of relatability because we aren't in the same environment all the time. Um, and you know, I don't know, man, I wonder if and I don't want to derail, but I will, well, not really, I just I wonder if they had it right.
Speaker 2:You know, I wonder if there was a recognition of the importance of male community 50, 60 years ago, and that's why these clubs existed and that's why these activities existed with men and there was a recognition of hey, when men are together in community. I mean because you would think, if you've rewind 50,000 years, that doing life as a community, then when you're hunting, when you're building, when you're doing all of these things, is going to be much more successful than doing it on your own. So again, maybe 50 years ago, you know, in the 50, 60, 70s, um, when those clubs were available and people were doing things like that on a more consistent basis, that they had it right and that, you know, maybe that's something we're missing nowadays and we've replaced it with this very surface-level engagement like texting memes you know Social media, social media stuff.
Speaker 1:It's really fascinating. Social media, social media stuff it's really fascinating. The entry point for people to find community is arguably harder, for sure. How often it makes me think about this. How often do you guys just open yourself up to new community, like, hey, I'm going on a run, put it on Facebook, who wants to join me for three minutes? And air for three miles? How often should we be putting ourselves? I mean, arguably we have as much community as we can handle, but that's a really interesting point because I think it is harder now to find that community because a lot of those clubs don't exist and I don't believe we're proactively opening up those opportunities.
Speaker 2:And there's so much more. I don't know if we're more neurotic now too, like overanalyzing relationships. Maybe that's because we have more access from a social media perspective. And there's the concept with social media influencers. Now I forget what it is that they call it, but it's like you are exposed to someone so much you think you know them. It's a parasocial relationship, right, where you know you see this person talk to you on Twitch for four hours a day, so it's like they're your best friend, but you don't know them and you know.
Speaker 2:So you look at other men out there and you're in and I'll be open and and I guess, honest about this. And you know you're like text somebody hey, you want to go for a run, and then you see on Strava, they ran with somebody else two hours later and they told you no, like you know this, I'm sure this has happened to me, right and you overanalyze that and you hesitate because you're afraid and you don't want to reach out to that particular person again, whereas prior to having all that insight into someone's daily life, you know you could just attribute it to whatever. Oh, they couldn't do it that day, that's fine, and you know, maybe that wouldn't give you as much pause when you reached out the next time because you didn't see what they were doing or whatever? So that's something for me. That is, I wonder, is do we overanalyze these relationships? And you know, if somebody says no to something, I think I have a tendency to do that.
Speaker 2:I don't know how you guys feel about it, but I do feel like there are times when I'm fearful to reach out. You know, you get I don't know how you guys feel about it, but I do feel like there are times when I'm fearful to reach out. You get asked to go to a run three weeks in a row and then, all of a sudden, you don't. You're like why I saw the group ran today? Why didn't they text me? Well, a lot of times I think you probably need to look in the mirror and be like well, why don't you reach see?
Speaker 1:they ran on Strava which I think in the past you may not have ever known.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I think certain things. I think we live in an environment where there's a lot of information out there and you know, we're probably trying to draw conclusions and make assumptions, and there's a there's an element of self-preservation in that, that we're kind of trying to protect ourself from any sort of potential threat although I say threat very loosely, because there's really not a meaningful one out there but yeah, what's the logical next step?
Speaker 2:I find myself a lot of times, most times, and I think we all embody this social capability, trent probably more than others. But you know, I'll find myself at a child's basketball game with another dad. I want a great conversation and it ends there and you find yourself like man, I wish it didn't, or what's the next step? And then the next time you see the guy. A lot of times I mean, you can go on.
Speaker 1:You're like what's his name?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, or it just you know. You barely even acknowledge he's of this existence, even though you spent two hours talking at a game, and I don't know. I remember hearing stories from people who have children that are a little bit older. It's like, well, my kids are in almost a middle school and I'm nope. It's so much more fleeting. It's like we'll go over to one of the girls' friends' houses and we'll have a great time with their parents and then it never happens again, and then it goes back to the whole neurotic thing about well, did they not like us? Did we invite ourselves over like um again, maybe it's overthinking it.
Speaker 2:It's just I struggle with this and this is a great topic because and I love any insight, because I struggle with this mightily and and the other part too, is like you said, you said you said shared interests I don't go to the bar and watch sports. I watch sports, but like I'm not going and having beers three nights a week not this age, you know again, to each their own but I can't do it because I don't feel well the next day if I do. But I, man, this is a tough one. This is a tough one for me.
Speaker 1:What have you I mean you mentioned you've got a big passion for this and it's something you've, I think, oriented yourself towards. There's you've had groups that have been successful. You've had groups that haven't or that maybe haven't persisted, like what are some of the patterns or trends that you've noticed and how have you approached this? Great questions I have. My friend group has changed dramatically over time and it seems to change with seasons. One of my flaws as a human my pastor actually told me this is I'm apostolic by nature and I love to meet new people. So that's an easy thing for me. I love to get excited, I see potential in everyone and get together and serve whatever purpose I feel that is. And then I move on. There's very few friends. I still have friends from high school and I still have some friends from college, but I have very few close friends for longer than a decade, and that's not because they're not great people.
Speaker 1:Some of my groups have been with families and friends Like you, to keep your kids engaged. You spend time with their parents and some of the times the challenges is is that we're also different? Right, I have been lucky enough to find a really good church and a really good group of men that we find challenges and other things outside of of church, which I think is you guys nailed that with. Not that there's anything wrong with, like, the men's prayer group and getting together and praying and things like that but I've found more so with Christians doing stuff outside the church that are physically and mentally challenging, and so I've been really lucky to find people to do life with in those channels.
Speaker 1:I would say creating opportunities for those things to manifest is important, and making yourself accessible to other people is important, because there's a need out there for that community, and that's one thing that comes a little bit more natural to me, and so I've been able to make some really good connections over the years, helping people do things and learn about stuff that I'm passionate about. So when I asked you, like, hey, if you put on Facebook I'm running at three o'clock today or whatever or Instagram, there might be 10 people show up that would just love to spend 30 minutes with you to get a little bit of that, and likewise with something that you're into. So I don't do extremely well long-term my. I generally have I don't know four to maybe eight really close, deep relationships and friends, and that seems to shift over time to some extent.
Speaker 2:So I don't, I don't have a silver bullet, but You've had a lot of success with this track tuesday thing and there are so many elements of track tuesday that are kind of that make it difficult, right. One of the things with that run I had this morning was and it wasn't even that early, it was 6.30. You guys get up and run at 5 am on a Tuesday mornings and you do it in the winter and all year round and you've grown it to for something that's that, from my perspective, unenjoyable to get to the size it has. What do you attribute that to? Is it consistency, Like what?
Speaker 1:I think consistency is big. We started this in 2022, maybe 21 or 22,. We used to run four miles the Bridgewater Loop near our house and we did that on Mondays and then we switched it to Tuesdays and then eventually we moved over to the Guerin track and there was three or four of us for like year, two years, especially in the winter. It was like four of us that went out there and it was just consistency. And I mean we've talked about this how long it takes things to build and others to kind of see the value and feel the value, experience the value, and it slowly built. And I think some of the underlying elements, what I would attribute that to certainly sticking with that, creating the space, giving it time to manifest. I think from a spiritual perspective, there's a shared interest for people to get their prayer in and their exercise in and do that in community, just became a very compelling thing. We tried to make it fun and put some time and energy into varying the workouts and you know doing different things that I think people found interesting as well as part of it, versus going out there and you know, monotonously doing the same thing. But I think people started to really enjoy the community. We started a text thread and that group texts throughout the week and you start to get to know these guys and then you see them in different places and then someone invites someone else. So I think, like any of the ventures that we've talked about, I think it's really really hard to build those initial form, those initial connections, and then you know it gets easier thereafter. I would say, naturally those are a few of the things that I would attribute that to should tell the story about how they put the banner up on the full mo across the yeah, at one of the guys, one of the track tuesday guys, um, he lives right on the monon and I ran the full mo and he's a character and he had kind of alluded to, he was going to do something and it was the year I was going to run the first half on my own and then run with a friend the last half to get them in Um, and so I come down the one 46 street bridge and I see Todd chalked. And then I go a little further and it says daily. And then so I'm like, oh my gosh, here we go. I mean this is chalked on the Monon on a Saturday morning that hundreds, if not thousands, of people are traversing.
Speaker 1:If you know me, I'm a very conservative. I don't like to be in the spotlight, like anything that's drawing attention to me is horrible and so. And then it said is a savage. I mean just like in plain sight, as you're running down the Monon and I just was so embarrassed and I turned the corner and up above the Monon is a picture of me like blown up. This has to be like a I don't know five foot by three foot sign strung on trees. I mean the Monon's a pretty wide trail strung on trees of both sides, huge picture. Todd Daly is a savage again and I'm just mortified. But you know, just some of that is fun. By the way, way that did stay up for, I want to say, 24 hours. Someone took a picture of it the next day. Someone from Marion that was, yeah, had taken a picture and posted that on Facebook. But yeah, that was one of the track Tuesday guys that pulled that prank yeah, with this, this is a tough one pulled that prank.
Speaker 2:Yeah, with this, this is a tough one. I don't know, I mean not to belabor it, but I wonder how much of this I guess situation we find ourselves in goes back to the different cultural expectations of men now and the way that society, the expectations that society has of what we are, what we should be. I mean that has been a real hot button topic in political circles and any kind of circles over the last probably five years. Political circles in any kind of circles over the last probably five years, you know, are men losing their masculinity, if you will. And you know, I think one of the things that I've noticed is really putting my relationships in jeopardy is that shift. You know and I'm not saying it's right, wrong or indifferent, but I know there are situations.
Speaker 2:You know, one thing we do a lot we talked about it in a prior episode is relay races and that's become like this really cool community aspect of our running community. You know we've probably done different people have done different ones, I don't know, call it seven or eight. You know two GA, five Ks, a couple of Ragnars, a couple of hood to coasts, and you know, the last two years we haven't done anything and I think it goes back to, I think, men in general I guess I can just speak for myself, but like we have so many expectations from a family perspective that it's become such a difficult thing to organize and the energy that's required and I think this goes back to another episode we had we were talking about grit. It's either energy or time and, like you said, yeah, I've grown track Tuesday from four to 20. It's taken three years. You could probably have grown it quicker if you went around the church and handed out flyers and talked about it all the time and added everybody, but there's a lot more energy that goes into that.
Speaker 2:And now I see these experiences that we've had collectively and we have people tell us all the time and I think we feel the same way about a lot of these events that they're like life-changing, you know, but it's become so hard to coordinate because of different expectations and different levels of I don't know, different types of prioritization happening in people's lives and I feel like it's such a travesty. You know, I definitely don't have the answers when it comes to this. Maybe it is putting in more effort, spending more time, prioritizing it a little bit more highly, like you said. But I definitely see it as a problem and the more we talk about this, the more I recognize that there is a hole that needs to be filled.
Speaker 2:I had a buddy come in from Seattle last week and it was fantastic, you know, to see one of those old faces, a guy that I lived with for a number of years, that helped, was part of the TPD business shout out, vernon. He comes into town and he's engaged with the kids and we're going, you know, I get to show him my life and he's going to practice. It was so awesome to have that. And so you realize what you're missing out on. And you know, I definitely wonder what the steps are to.
Speaker 2:I mean, we've lived in this neighborhood now for seven or eight years and I still don't have a relationship like that in this neighborhood. I have a friend or two that like I can call or text and we can do this and the other thing, but like, not like that. In this neighborhood, I have a friend or two that like I can call or text and we can do this to any other thing, but like, not like that man, um, and you, you know. At the same time, you don't want to feel like you're stepping on somebody's toes either, because you're conscious of all the stuff that you have from a responsibility standpoint.
Speaker 1:So I don't know how you guys navigate that well, part of that's probably because of the wars you've been through with Vernon.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like when we were younger, we were making memories, because I believe you have to make memories. Well, one of the ways we used to make memories was to get after it, and now it's like we're making memories through running, and what are you going to do? Because I think to seal the deal, but what are those ways that you make memories and have experiences together that you're never going to forget? And some of the things that you've alluded to are the races, and when you were younger, it was the parties, and so some of the more meaningful or the things, some of the more meaningful strong relationships are with people that I've been through a lot with. Frankly, yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think that's how a shared I think we talked about that through difficult things you share bonds and again you go back to fraternities. Fraternities, you know that's not one for me in particular, that I, you know I don't have a lot of relationships, deep relationships, that stem from fraternity, but I know I'm not a lot too and part of that was just my shared interest Wasn't the shared interest of that group. But I think fraternities, you know, those relationships last a lifetime and in a lot of cases I know a lot of people in their college fraternities. They're still 30, 40, 50 years later. They've got active connections there and I think some of that is because of the shared struggle that you go through in something like that.
Speaker 1:But one of the questions I want to ask you guys is just as we look at this, it's hard for I mean, I think some of the things we've said it's hard for guys to find community. Some of us have stumbled into them right place, right time kind of our hypothesis is, societally it's becoming more difficult, maybe less prevalent, whether it's less men's clubs or less prioritization of it or more expectations of responsibilities around the house, whatever that is Like. What do you think the longer term implications are of something like this, like how does this manifest as you fast forward 10, 20, 30, 40 years? Do you feel like this is maybe cyclical and it recovers and people you know if it gets to a point where we find that and we can kind of bring that back, or is it something where that could continue to deteriorate and manifest in whatever way that does in terms of mental well-being or otherwise? I think the interesting part to add to that question is like the distractions is another piece, sure is, will the next generation even know because they never experienced it? Did they ever we had so much community when we grew up with friends? Do? Do we believe that I'm sure there's some groups of friends that have the similar community as as we did, depending on how they were raised. If they were raised by technology, we'll even know, because I believe there'll be a gaping hole and I think that's where connection and mental illness and things start to pop up, because there's a void that can't be filled by anything but that.
Speaker 1:Why don't you go a little deeper? I'm an introvert, so I could argue that I am on this planet to leave it better off than I found it in some form or fashion, and a lot of that time is me kind of putting forth that effort in some form or fashion to create those outcomes. I think you have an interesting perspective. You said at the top of the episode, which is community is like that's why we're here. That's kind of somewhat of the end and the means, like talk about that, like yeah, I'd be interested to understand that because, honestly, had I not experienced the community in the way I have, I would have been perfectly fine, probably ignorant maybe, in that regard, but I could have just gone about plugging away. I know I was in IT for 10 years, you guys were too. There's a lot of people that just do that and they just do their own thing. But why do we feel like community is so important? Who do you think you're making the world a better place for?
Speaker 1:um people, other people, I. I think that's why I feel that way. Um, I don't believe working back in biblical days, they worked to come together as men in a community. It's not as much about the job, it's not the problem we're solving. Like building the next Amazon or whatever the business is that doesn't matter in eternity. Like at least this is the way that I'm going to talk about this and look at this, like jobs don't really matter.
Speaker 1:Making the world a better place? Well, I would argue that. Like making the world a better place for individuals, for people to come together in community to pursue a relationship with Christ and a relationship with each other, for a relationship with Christ and a relationship with each other. So I don't know, I don't know how it's to articulate it, but I just think those other things that we do are things that keep us busy or that we believe give us purpose, and arguably they do give us some purpose and they do give us some meaning. But I just don't think they're as important To me. When you say important and you're talking about community, is it kind of to you a source of happiness and fulfillment and joy? Is that kind of why you feel community is so important. Is there any kind of source of that that you could expound on? Is life more enjoyable for you in community, or you feel like community allows you to positively impact others more meaningfully because you're with them in person and you can pour into them, or vice versa, like? In what elements do you feel like you get the most value out of? Community? Is maybe the question. I'm not sure I can answer that, but I want to pose this question.
Speaker 1:Let's go back in the days where we all lived out of caves, hunter, gatherers. There was nothing else. All we did was try to survive, right, so we did things. We only did the things that required survival. We're in community. Does that answer the question? Like, strip all the other stuff away that we've created, right, we've created all these other systems and things and automobiles. Strip it down to caveman and we're all living in a cave trying to survive and we have to go out and hunt, we have to basically eat and drink water or whatever to survive. That's kind of what I when I say the rest of stuff doesn't matter. It matters like money matters and cars matter and all that stuff matters, but if we strip away at the core to me, community and people. I mean, it's how this thing all started, and I think that's where the most important thing is Now. The way you impact that and the way you interact with that obviously is way different now, but I'm looking at it from a caveman's perspective.
Speaker 2:So then this goes back to something else we've discussed prior. Is there tension? Maybe this is what I'm feeling. Is there tension, maybe this is what I'm feeling? Is there tension between the way we're fulfilling those desires today, meaning that at some point in time, we talked in the past about AI and about different things as technology and what you refer to as other stuff continues to propagate and we lose, you know, I think the thing I brought to there is definitive proof. You can communicate via mind and we're losing these skills and these abilities. Do we think that you know?
Speaker 2:What's happened is that there is this desire to connect with people and there was so much joy and excitement in that 50,000 years ago, or prior to all the different ages, we've gone through bronze gold industrial revolution, yada, yada yada. Through bronze gold industrial revolution, yada, yada, yada. Do we feel like there's this tension now because these relationships have become fulfilled via such surface level means? Instead of getting what our body is traditionally wired to get, which is this great feedback from other people and seeing joy and happiness in their achievements and successes, and seeing joy and happiness in the community's achievements and successes, now we're satiating that with sending memes over Instagram and this dopamine hit of oh, they hit the LOL sign to the meme I sent. So I'm satisfied.
Speaker 2:But yet there's this deeper yearning and we're kind of fighting this. We're placating it with this bullshit social media text messages. I'm guilty of it. I send 20 memes every day and it's giving us just enough that we are not putting the priority we should put. And, like you said, the more this happens, the less we're aware of this and slowly we're fading and maybe we get to a point where we've evolved technology to a place where it keeps this dormant and that strong desire continues to fade as we evolve. And that sucks. But I feel like maybe I don't know.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you this Do you feel like some of the things, the patterns that we're talking about, seem to be not necessarily specific to men, although vulnerability and humility some of those characteristics that can be barriers to group formation and depth, are prevalent? This environment is having a similar impact on marriage type relationships as it is on, uh, when I say same sex relationships, obviously in more of a communal way, but do you feel like that is also suffering from whether you look at even just in men in general, I feel like get a little bit of a rap or a stereotype for not being good in relationships, you know, for lack of vulnerability or other reasons. Right, that's, there's a stereotype there. So maybe that's question one, but also just question two is all the noise and the distraction and all of this stuff going on also had any sort of negative implication on marriage?
Speaker 2:I don't know what's right, meaning that I don't know if, as a society, we ever got there. Because if you look historically at marriages, like there were very, very defined roles and, in a lot of sense, like the man was such the head of the house, end, all be all and the woman was there to raise the children and to be subservient and to do these things. And there were instances, I'm sure, where you could look back and find, you know, I mean, depending on how far back you go, woman don't talk unless you're spoken to type things. So you know, I don't know if we've. You know, I think, as we've evolved into current day, I don't know if we've I think, as we've evolved into current day, there's more of a level playing field there. But I still don't know if. I still don't know what's right. Maybe it boils down to just the amount of effort you put into the particular relationship. But that's a really good question. What are your thoughts?
Speaker 1:I think it absolutely does.
Speaker 1:I believe that the distractions and the way we're living as busy as we are with the kids, the running around, the constant it's never enough mentality is absolutely affecting marriages.
Speaker 1:And then you topple that with the social media making you feel like everyone else's life is so great, right? So you have this. You have created this paradox where we're spending more time watching other people's lives or running our kids around so they turn out as best they can, and then you're watching other people and everyone's life is a little bit better than yours. And then I think people are sitting there scrolling through their phones and I'm guilty of it, and my wife and so forth is like I don't think the pursuit is there as much like men pursuing women, and the connection isn't as deep, and I feel like that's something that I mean. I don't know what the percentage now is of divorces, but it's not going the other way. It's not getting any better, right, and I think some of that has to do with the society we live in and the things that we prioritize and the way that we're living our lives.
Speaker 2:So let's unpack that I'm going to go back to. I'm getting my train of thought back. So we had really defined roles. Marriages were obviously much more I wouldn't say much more right, but the divorce rate was considerably less and we had defined roles in. And honestly, you know, if rate was considerably less and we had defined roles, and honestly, if today's society looks back at those defined roles, chauvinism and all of these things you throw those words around. Now we're apparently on more equal ground, but we're busier.
Speaker 1:Do you think, though, there was less divorces, but do you think that means that they were happier, or is it just wasn't as accepted?
Speaker 2:well, that's. That's kind of my bigger question, right why you know was it? Was it because of the fear stuck it out fear.
Speaker 1:They just stuck it out, and then you know shame they didn't want to be shamed like people just stuck it out and they're like I guess I'll just stay in it because it's going to be worse without it. But I think the generation before them was like you stick things out, like once you're in, you're in, yeah. And so I think there was a level of that bred into them that, like you made this choice, you made your bed, you're, you're living in it.
Speaker 2:And now it's like yeah, you know, but you know I'm just gonna jump out without trying some some people try, but well, I mean, I hear it all the time, you know, two ships passing in the night, right, like that's a metaphor for relationships nowadays. I get it and you know, I don't know if it takes more. It takes effort, period. I don't know if it takes more effort today than it did 50 years ago and I don't know if the stick it out approach. We can all agree that there were definitely situations and there are still today situations where sticking it out approach. I, we can all agree that there were definitely situations and there are still today's stuff, situations where sticking it out is not the play. But what is that like? But then there's fleeing at first sight, you know, or or first sign of you know, on the other side of things.
Speaker 2:So it's like where is that balance? But your question is is you know well posed? Yeah, balance. But your question is is you know well posed? Yeah, there's, there's a lot going on and maybe there's also confusion as to responsibility and who does what. And because we talk a lot about in business, we talk a lot about finding people who have skillsets that compliment ours, and I think that we are wired as humans, male and female, with certain, most of the time, certain capabilities, skills, emotional well-being or whatever you want to call it, not well-being, but the ability to connect emotionally with our children in different ways and because roles are so intertwined and there are women that are more well-adapted to do certain things professionally and there are women that are more well-adapted to do things at home, and men and vice versa, and maybe that's also causing issues.
Speaker 1:It's really going to be interesting to see how this evolves. I've lived on both sides of it. So my wife I met at Liberty Mutual and she's very professionally wired and for us it's been, I would say, as you talk about the equality and as the playing field has leveled over the last couple of decades, that's been a really positive thing for us and for her, because I feel like she's wired more for that, when in probably prior generations she would have been expected to stay home and just be out of her element but just find a way to mentally get through it. And so it's been great for her to be able to lean into her strengths. We talked in another episode about spending your time where you bring the most value and you also find the most fulfillment. That's where you're going to get the greatest or passion, that's where you get the greatest return on your time investment, and so for her that's been fantastic and I think we've made incredible progress in terms of leveling the playing field and allow for those who are oriented to that to have that opportunity to live into that and whose job is maybe more demanding. And if that's the case, then is everything still kind of split 50-50? Or is one of us expected to do more based on the intensity of our job, either in that particular season or more broadly, and so that's been. It's complicated things, certainly To your point. I don't know what's right or wrong. It's going to be really interesting. I think we all believe that it's right for people to be able to lean into their strengths and to be able to be fulfilled in whatever they're doing. If someone isn't wired to stay at home with the kids and focus on that full time, I don't think it makes any sense at all for them to have to do that. Right, when we look at self-actualization and making the most of yourself, like, let everyone kind of have an opportunity to set themselves up for success in that regard. However, I think there's still and kind of living it with that. How does that evolve and how can we figure out, I think, some of the complexities? It's just very new right to us to have everything split.
Speaker 1:I think there are times where you know where there were more roles, like you didn't know something, you didn't know how to do something. You really valued that. The other person did it. You didn't want to have to deal with it. It was just like there was this huge psychological barrier and there was just a lot of gratitude that someone else was handling that Right. And that's where I think some of those roles is like it made it easier, right, the, the Dieting versus fasting? Sure, absolutely. And so I mean you have in some cases where the spouse you know in prior generations, the wife, for example, didn't want to worry about having to bring in money and go work a job and deal with the workforce and the stresses of that and especially with the way they were being treated, not being paid necessarily the same wages and all that kind of stuff, and so they really valued the fact that the man or the male was out kind of doing that element, bringing in the funds for the family to survive, and then on, vice versa, I think the men were so grateful to not have to deal with maybe the cooking or the providing of the food or some of those sorts of things, just because that was, that role was embedded and there was a psychological barrier and they were distant to it.
Speaker 1:And so, as things have gotten split up right and it's more half and half and everyone's kind of doing everything and then, and then how do you count right? It's like you get into this battle of like, well, who's doing more, you're doing less, and well, I mean, it's complicated and it's hard. Yeah, if you're keeping score, it's not a good sign, but I think we've all been there, especially when the kids were younger. I got up last time. It's your time to get up and that never ends well. But at the end of the day, I think society and the way that we've set this up it's not poised for deep connection, whether that's with your spouse or with other people. It feels like deep connection is harder to come by, it's harder to foster and it's harder to maintain. And I think you are right.
Speaker 1:I believe generations past knew that and I think it went from probably having more of these fraternity and men's clubs to bring that together, and I think some of that turned into then, after the one generation who might have the purpose of it was more for the community side. It turned into a, maybe a celebration or a fraternity that we know of today which is drinking and partying. But maybe that's not why they were originally established. What about? I mean, I think a lot of people see their immediate family as their community these days, right, like if someone were to say would you rather go out and play golf with a group of guys? Force them and go whatever? Would you go rather go out and play with Noah? I'd tell you 10 times out of 10, I'd rather go play with Noah and like that would just that.
Speaker 1:And so there's, there's kind of community there, but I think there's a. You know, there would be a perception that's like, well, that's really more family, that's not community with other men and certainly there's only there's dialogue. There's different dialogue that I would have with him and things I would be able to share or it would make sense to share and discuss, versus what I could maybe discuss with other men. But I think that's interesting to me when I talk about kind of doing my own thing as an introvert. My family kind of is my community in that regard. Your guys' thoughts on that?
Speaker 2:um, you know, I wish it was more acceptable to introduce kids into that type of broader because I do. I do think that for me there are times when it's I would rather it be just the guys and there are times where I want I'd rather would be, you know, just me and my kids. But then there are times where I wish it was a little bit more socially acceptable to integrate the two. I mean that, like I can remember a time a couple of years ago where I started running with somebody in the neighborhood and like the the like the first time he brought his son Not cool the neighborhood. And like the the like the first time he brought his son not cool. And then the second time he brought his son and that was his. That became in the third time and it became his focal point.
Speaker 2:The entire run, which is normally filled with conversation and exploration and learning about person, it's don't do this, do this, stop here, slow down, and you know so. Of course that lives in my mind as it relates to my daughter, because I do bring Kay to a lot of running things and so I'm always super self-conscious of am I dampening or ruining the environment by bringing a kid who maybe doesn't have the social skills necessary to engage and integrate with the broader group. But for me there's two. You know I see value in both. I was asked to run yesterday with Caleb and Jacob and I ran with Canstet, you know. So most of the time I would choose her, but I'd also like to be able to or maybe it's Miles, when he's old enough expose him to the guys and like that would be the perfect community right there is when the kids are old enough to be able to. You know, I would love to do relays with Kay and Roman and Noah and us. That would be. That's my pinnacle.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So my kids are a little older. I would say I'm still kind of and the things that my kids are at a similar level to me, I'm 100% spent. So for the last five years I've taken my kids skiing and I remember the first time I took them skiing I carried four sets of skis and in ski boots those of you who've walked in ski boots know how difficult that is you know a couple of football fields and, like man, just getting them. My wife got them all dressed. By the time we got them dressed, we're sweating and then you're carrying stuff and I mean this is a lot of work, right, and there I'd like nothing better and I couldn't wait to get them to ski school and then go ski with you or someone else and be like we're gonna go our speed. And I did that for four years and they've gotten better each year.
Speaker 1:This year it was kind of a magical. The last day I was with my three oldest and I'm like where do you want to go anywhere? And my kids are? They tracking their time on an app and they're skiing 40, 45, 50 miles an hour when I'm snowboarding. It's like this is the moment I was dreaming of five years ago that they're all to a level that like I'm not holding them up and they're not holding me up and and it's this like it's happening right, it's like it's that, that, that experience.
Speaker 1:So I think when your kids get to an age I know at least for me, because there there is a part of the training side and like I love going golfing with Roman and I love watching their sports, like my kids are playing a game, I'm there encouraging them, I'm part of it. But if we're doing something, something together, there is something to be said of when they get to a level of, and then what happens right is they get to a level of proficiency of where you're at, and then you got a small window before we fall off, right, there's gonna be a point in time like how many years can I ski with them before they're gonna be like Dad, come on, I already had to stop and use the restroom more than they wanted me to. So I know it's a short lived time where those paths cross and I'm just entering that phase and it's really exciting.
Speaker 2:You know what's interesting there because you hear this a lot and you said it right there's a short window of time. You hear people talk a lot about making sure, like your kids are only going to be around for so long, make sure you pay attention to your marriage, because when they're gone, you're not going to have kids sports as a topic of conversation every night or kids school as a topic of conversation. You better have kept up on that, and maybe the same holds true for your male friendships. Outside of that, like you know and I and I'm not judging anybody, but and maybe this is something that I will be more conscious of is do everything that your kids want to do now and, you know, structure your whole life around them. But, you know, don't expect a solid community to be there if you're not prioritizing or putting time into it. When that short window is over and they go to college Because, as we know, I mean, I talk to dad once or twice a week.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'm never here. We all live in different cities. You're here, we don't. We all live in different cities. You're here, right, but we live in different cities. You see him or talk to him maybe a little bit more frequently, but eventually that'll be us, and so you know I look forward to where you're at, because I think that's going to be an epic six years or whatever, but then you know when they get boyfriends or girlfriends it's a.
Speaker 1:It's a short window. Yeah, I think it starts sooner these days too, with social media and some of the other ways that they can connect digitally and virtually. I think for us, before we had a car, there was only so much we could do autonomously and only so many ways we could communicate. Certainly, aol and ICQ're starting to manifest at that point in time, but, um, they, I think they form. I mean, this is another dimension of it is that their communities and them forming communities sooner, and uh, what the depth of those communities are, I think is uh as a whole, nother angle I mean, yeah, we could spend an entire episode talking about the communities that we see our kids in and the positives and negatives of those.
Speaker 2:That's a whole different ballgame.
Speaker 1:I mean, is there any way? A lot of what we talked about too is like instilling different things right In the kids in a prior episode how to instill grit, how to instill the importance of community even in kids, or how to get them to experience the value of that and the enjoyment of that, because, trent you said, they may not even know.
Speaker 1:I think that's the sacrifice that, like, one of the things that me and Angel didn't realize was so important was engaging with the parents and the kids that our kids are in the classroom with, and how important that community is. And Roman had a pretty good. He had a couple of really good friends and he has a great friend group. But you have to be proactive. Mom used to do this. She was great at this. I had playdates all the time.
Speaker 1:You have to be proactively involved with the kids in their class or their parents or the kids on their team and you're hanging out and sometimes with people that aren't like you or sometimes wouldn't be the people you would pick, but they're getting to experience that community. When isaiah, my seven-year-old, is jumping on the couch watching ninjago lego like he's dying to be with friends anytime, like hey, you want to go over and see your buddy theo, he was like, yes, absolutely, we go pick up theo or we go to his house and they go run around for two hours. You know they'll run in the woods, they'll ride the four-wheelers, they'll do whatever. But I think we have to sacrifice, and some of that is putting ourselves in those situations, even if we don't want to be to make sure they're seeing the importance of being around people and having that community that's a benefit we have, that I don't think either of you guys have as much as our neighborhood.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know I mean the more.
Speaker 2:The bigger your house, the more land you have, typically, the smaller your neighborhood is around you. You know, we, we have got to experience what it was like. I saw my kids experiencing what it was like for us to grow up just last weekend. You know, there was a magnetic effect here in parkview. It was us and leaps and and fams and whatever, and then we'd have friends over, and then they'd have friends over and then more people and the next thing, you know, we're playing hide and seek with 100 people, um, in parkview and I, you know that's been a good thing.
Speaker 2:It's kind of happening naturally where our kids will get out and they'll get on the trampoline and then the kids will come over and then the hostet letters and then all of a sudden there's a dozen kids or 15 kids in the backyard, and so that's happened a little bit more naturally for us. But you're right, though, there are situations and again it goes to putting yourself out there just like it, just like it is with you know the relationships we started off this episode with it's. Yeah, yeah, maybe I don't know this person well or get along with this person, but I have to put the effort out there, so that my kids can.
Speaker 1:And one of the things that we did and this is no fault to us, but we moved into communities that were a little bit out of the reach for kids our age. So where TJ is in a community where he's got, that's a huge benefit. I wish my kids could go outside and they had friends in proximity to where they could just get to them. And I know your community. There's a little bit older kids, but there may be some now where we live on six acres and we made that decision and we wanted that land. But now for my kids to see other kids, we have to call up and make a play date or we have to go drive someone and get them. They can't just go outside and go down the street or go.
Speaker 1:If we lived on the same street as Theo, isaiah would be standing at their doorway every single day. Now they're probably thankful that that's not happening. But I'm to the point now with him as my youngest and my you know he's seven as I would honestly let him take a scooter down the road for a mile just to get there. Like, I feel pretty, pretty safe about that.
Speaker 2:I haven't done it yet and we're letting the kids do more of that, like riding the bike around the neighborhood, like miles. He's six, but we'll let him ride to Braxton's house, which is, you know, half a mile.
Speaker 1:That freedom that we had, that kids don't have. I think some of that comes through intentionality of the parents through sports and school, but it also comes through the community that you live in, come through church and the people that you're hanging out with. But if you're hanging out with people that don't have kids that age, I think they're missing out on that, because they learn so much just being around other kids.
Speaker 2:Well, there's a secondary benefit of having a better community at the adult level, right, the more you spend time, like Miles is like, can I go to such and such's houses and I haven't talked to these parents or ever met these parents there may be a little bit of a hesitation, hesitation, not necessarily from a safety perspective, although that's there and I think you know tara feels that more than I do but like, again, a fear.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I want to text his dad. He doesn't know me and yada, yada, yada and um, you know, you overcome that. But, like, the more time you put into the people in your community maybe it's just in your neighborhood the more you get to know those dads. Then you know, like you don't even have to second guess it. Oh hey, I'm going to Braxton's house. Well, I don't even have to think about that because we know his parents so well and we would offer that same reciprocal acceptance to him if he showed up at our door. So there's a secondary benefit of putting time and effort into those you know in and around you.
Speaker 1:And we've been really lucky. We actually, when we live at the lake in the summer, we have incredible neighbors and Isaiah's got a great buddy, jimmy, that he just I mean when Jimmy's there, isaiah's basically living next door but we've developed a great relationship with them and having that ability for those kids to kind of grow up together and spend time together is really really special, because you don't have to go out of your way. It naturally happens. They can go in and out of our place and their place and you just kind of get to that. It's just like having another child. It's really really neat.
Speaker 1:So, bringing this back, I think one of the things we've talked about we're in an environment where it's harder to develop connection. I think we've talked initially men's groups, but also just in general, I think it's spouses and I think even kids with our kids developing depth of connections. We talked about some of it's putting yourself out there and being willing to kind of slowly try and build community over time. We have talked about trying to minimize the distractions, the things and all the things going on and trying to prioritize the important over the urgent and find some time and space for this sort of things but anything else that you guys would say for people who are maybe thinking about this, other tactics that could be employed to try and fight the trend that we're seeing.
Speaker 2:I would love for anybody listening to take on a challenge with me. You guys can feel free to as well, but I'm going to make the effort over the next call it 60 days 30 to 60 days to put more effort into that aspect of life and to, you know, eight episodes from now, come back and talk about the benefits or the failures that I had in that effort. And endeavor, because I think it's just having the week that I spoke of last week. And endeavor because I think it's just having the week that I spoke of last week and Vern's going to come back in another couple of weeks. But having that and that kind of rekindling, oh yeah, this could be really cool. I'm going to put more effort into that community and see what happens. That's great.
Speaker 1:I'll throw this out there for those of you that are hanging on super late here that are going to grind to the end If anyone wants to run the full mow on May 31st and you live in Grant County, want to get together twice a week and run, I'm always looking for that, so I'll throw that out there to anybody that has some ambition to run their first 50K, which I will tell you is way different than the marathon. It's a much easier pace. You do it in six mile chunks. You're not going to kill yourself. It'll be fun to do it together, and I do. Most of my great conversations are through running, so we would also build a friendship in that process. So anyone that's up for that, uh, hit us up. Got anything that's great. Well, thanks, thanks for tuning in. This has been a lot of fun and hopefully you guys got some really good value. We'll see you next time.