The Dailey Edge Podcast
Join hosts Trent, TJ, and Todd Dailey as they explore the intersections of technology, culture, fitness, and personal growth. Through engaging discussions and personal anecdotes, the trio dives into topics ranging from childhood gaming nostalgia and cutting-edge fitness tech to the pursuit of happiness and lifestyle choices. Whether reminiscing about epic gaming marathons, sharing tips for staying on the forefront of fitness trends, or unraveling the complexities of modern life, The Dailey Edge delivers thoughtful insights, lively debates, and relatable stories for listeners of all walks of life.
The Dailey Edge Podcast
Episode 4: Lifestyle Choices: Navigating Expectations and Investing in Happiness
What drives your lifestyle choices—your own values or the expectations of others? Join us as we unravel this complex question, drawing from a conversation sparked during a run that unveiled the contrasting priorities of minimizing work for family time versus the pressures in affluent communities. We dig into the psychological tug-of-war between personal freedom and societal expectations, questioning how money can both liberate and bind us. The discussion takes a deeper look at how status and the communities we belong to can redefine our need for material wealth and the ways these influences shape our pursuit of happiness.
As we navigate the evolving dynamics of social interactions shaped by technology, we reflect on the shift from close-knit neighborhood communities to the isolating expanse of modern living. The importance of fostering connections through community involvement, meaningful experiences, and unsupervised play takes center stage as we explore how these elements can enhance personal satisfaction. Listen to stories from the Dominican Republic and elsewhere that illustrate how expectations can influence happiness, and learn how aligning with communities that prioritize virtues over materialistic pursuits can lead to a more fulfilling life.
Finally, we shed light on the impact of parental influence and the challenges faced by children of successful individuals. Discover how to balance resources wisely to cultivate opportunities without imposing unrealistic expectations. As we wrap up, the conversation turns to the exciting potential of investing in quality time and experiences. We share personal anecdotes of unforgettable adventures and the joy found in nurturing relationships, emphasizing that the most valuable returns often come from the simplest, most intentional moments.
Welcome to the Daily Edge where we bring you the latest insights, opinions and thought-provoking conversations to give you that competitive edge in life, business and four of the Daily Edge. Welcome everyone, glad you could join us today. Tj's kind of got a surprise topic for us about lifestyle and curating a lifestyle, so I'll let you take it away.
Speaker 2:Sweet. So this kind of came up and most of my stories start with I was on a run with a guy or a girl. This was on a run with a particular individual and we were talking a little bit about lifestyle I think this was born out of. Even within marriages, there tends to be sometimes a dichotomy between husband and wife. In my marriages it's like that where if I wasn't married with kids, I would probably live in a tiny house in the woods because I just don't care, it doesn't really matter to me. However, I do see the benefits of the lifestyle that I've curated. I do enjoy again same theme happiness, but this individual. I was taught happiness, seeing happiness throughout my family. But this individual I was talking to is in the space, in the life coach space. We've kind of talked about this and he has made some conscious decisions. He does well for himself, I would say by almost any measure, but has decided that for him it is important to minimize the amount of overall work, maximize time with family and do a lot of spending a lot of time in nature. Therefore, the house is a little smaller, owns a reasonably sized RV, does a lot of traveling, has curated his work life so that his weeks are pretty much done by Wednesday and he can kind of do what he wants, and they found happiness as a family through that.
Speaker 2:I thought it would be interesting to kind of explore. We all have different lifestyles and I think at a lot of times that people find other people unapproachable because of the way they perceive their lifestyle from the outside. Looking in In the area that we live, todd and I, in specific, there are a number of what I will say, those neighborhoods where you see 10, 12, 15,000 square foot houses and you're wondering why, why would you do that? That seems so grandiose and unusual and whatever People judge based on those factors. So I thought it would be very interesting to kind of explore that.
Speaker 2:And I think it does one thing it humanizes people that choose this lifestyle for a particular reason, whatever that may be, and then we can look at you know, I know that you have expressed like even starting a business around tiny houses, so like kind of looking at both sides of that, and then we can talk a little bit more about again, you know, the way that people are perceived, even the way that we feel we are perceived because of how we put ourselves forward, whether that be intentional or not. So, that said, I'd love to kick this off with, I guess, kind of a question. I'll just kick it to you, trent. You know your family has some things that you guys enjoy doing and you're in a community where you may be painted into a particular corner because of the way people perceive the way you live. So I'd like to just get your perspective on that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's real interesting. I was listening to a podcast I'm going to do the Donald Trump weave here for a second and it was about the psychology of money and it was Huberman and they just talked a lot about what drives different lifestyles and how people value money and there's several different things. But one of the things they pointed out is like people really don't fall in love with money. They generally fall in love with things, but one of the things he said is part of it is competitiveness. Right, like I think you get in those in certain neighborhoods or certain things where how much money do you need to be happy? Well, I need just a little bit more than my neighbor, and I think that's a trap that a lot of people fall fall into is they want to be doing just a little bit better than than the next person. But really, I think lifestyle and the way that he approached money was it's about.
Speaker 1:Money creates freedom. It creates independence in your life and if you can make a certain amount of money and that'll allow you to have the freedom, as you talked with the guy that you ran with, he has the freedom to go and do as he pleases because he has made enough money. Well, you can make a lot of money and still be a slave to money, depending on your lifestyle. So the question that's really intriguing to me on this whole topic is is, like, what influences you to have that lifestyle? Like what is that? You know that, that we're like what things around you or what internal you know I'm not going to call them demons, because they could be good things but what are those internal things inside of us that make us choose a lifestyle? It could be our internal choice. It could be a family member or a spouse or kids that we're trying to live up to, but I think a lot of lifestyle has to do with like an interpersonal struggle to some extent.
Speaker 2:I'd love, yeah, I, just I want to. This is going to be a very interesting topic. I'd love to explore that a little more and just I don't know, let's get some of your thoughts on just this whole, just this whole situation.
Speaker 3:Uh, it's extremely, uh, fascinating one. I you know we talk about kind of how the human uh, the, the evolution of the human body and some of the things that we're wired for and not wired for. I think one of the interesting things about the human body there's kind of in my human psyche, probably more so there's a couple of competing things here. One is the desire to belong and to fit in and to have status. I think a lot of times those get a bad connotation but those are deeply wired into us because we're very communal people and that's how we survived and basically survived is probably the word right and so we're deeply wired there. And then there's this part of us that also has this unique ability to normalize to our situations. We talked about this in another episode about kids and how they do that.
Speaker 3:But humans can do this really well as well, right, like you were in the back of your car for six weeks and probably about three or four weeks into it, that got to be a norm. Not that you wanted to do that indefinitely, right, but like you know, you normalized to that, and I think that's what's really interesting. Is we? I think those two things are. It's a, it's a psychological battle, almost a philosophical battle, of knowing that you'll normalize to a lower standard of living if you allow it, but at the same time you're fighting to belong and to fit in and to have a status within a society that is you know. I think we have to again acknowledge that that's just an evolutionary reality that's baked deeply into us. So for me, I kind of just find that back and forth fascinating.
Speaker 2:So there's two paths I want to go down First of all, and I'll look up the author of the book.
Speaker 2:But there's a book I read recently called the Status Game, and it was really about pursuit of status within any type of community. And I wonder if and I love both of your thoughts on this I wonder if you found status in a particular community, if it maybe pushes you in a direction that you don't necessarily need to seek it out in others. So this particular individual that I'm referencing has a very supportive, tight-knit fitness and strength community. He's kind of the central figure there, kind of the king of it, if you will. He has status in that community. So maybe and again I'm just making assumptions here or kind of shooting in the dark but maybe because of that he doesn't feel the need to seek status through materials, which I think, like you said, has become this lowest common denominator because everything's so readily available with Amazon and with just, I guess, property in general. So I'd first love your thoughts on that and then I kind of have a follow-up on that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think we all try to find our identity in something right. We do want to belong. I think you can find your identity in work. You can try to find it in things. I think there can be a competitiveness to that whole process. You know, I don't know if I'd say that directly in the Bible, but it's not money itself, it's the love of money, it's what you actually focus on and what you value. And really what I found is I've been fortunate enough to kind of experience the other side of that and it's just not all it's cracked up to be. And I don't think everyone gets to go through that experience, and if they do, it's at different ages. But it's a never-ending game and the key is to find happiness and joy with where you're at and do it in a way that keeps you from being a slave to money, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, a couple of things. This is just a separate, whole philosophical thing I've always been curious about is who loves money more, the saver or the spender? Right, I just always thought that was interesting, that I think a lot of times the savers get up in their Eiffel Tower and kind of like to fire bullets at the spenders of love and money. But it's an interesting thing if you could argue so. Anyways, that's a whole separate conversation. What I was going to say is I think what's interesting about this and when I've tried to control this a little bit is the community. We've talked about community.
Speaker 3:Who are the five people or the community that you're surrounding yourself with? Because they value different things and to your point that you gain status different ways in those communities. I can tell you, in my spiritual community, my Christian community, it's just the opposite. We had a guy just trade in a Tesla for a 2007 Lexus RX, because it's almost like a race to the bottom right Of like how can you live a more frugal life and give more um or uh? You know, the things that are gaining you status and that sort of community are more virtuous things, like habits that you're taking. Are you showing up for track. Tuesday at five 15 in the morning. Are you getting to adoration? Are you doing these things, that and so what I've found, and I've tried to do to modify my own behavior, is really find a community that values the things or that promotes status based on very virtuous behaviors that have a lot of depth to them.
Speaker 1:On the flip side of that is, I think, how you choose to live, and lifestyle also separates you, right? It's like if you live on six acres and you're not in a neighborhood, you miss out on the neighborhood thing. So I found that money really ends up separating you, at the end of the day, from more of a community. If you let it right, if you, if you choose to take those paths or buy the bigger house or move to the different neighborhoods, you're going to be in a place that, um, it's going to probably divide you and keep you more isolated than it's going to bring you into a community In some instances.
Speaker 2:I wanted to unpack the saver and spender philosophy. The comment that you made. That was one of the things I wanted to explore, because you hear a lot of cynicism out there in regard to people making comments about if they've done well, whatever that may be. It may be making a hundred grand a year, maybe making a hundred million a year, and the person receiving the message maybe they haven't made it In their mind, you know, maybe they're only making 100 a year and 500 is that mark, and the person that has done well says well, you know, I've been on both sides and having the money isn't all it's cracked up to be and money doesn't buy you happiness. And you hear a lot more commentary.
Speaker 2:Now. You know, I think that people, when the media outlets were much less available and I think just society as a whole, people were more controlled in their verbalization of things, so they weren't, as I wouldn't even say, uncouth, but they, they, they just weren't as aggressive with their commentary. You know people would make comments like that and people there would be whispers. Now people are coming out and kind of attacking that their cynicism. Oh well, of course you're saying money doesn't buy happiness and it's easier because you have it. You know.
Speaker 2:Um, I would love to expand and I think maybe we all can to a point because we all are very well aware that there is a level of success and in different tiers of it, but we're nowhere near what the top looks like. Elon Musk's net worth just hit $400 billion, like that's bigger than Costco. So you know, I would love to expound and talk a little bit about why you feel confident making that comment that it isn't necessarily all it's cracked up to be if you don't have the right underpinnings is extremely happy where he's at in his journey and does not have a profession that you know pays significantly well.
Speaker 1:Um and so, and I mean I've done, I've been on a few trips. I was able to go to the Dominican Republic for, um, a missions trip and you, you see, and you hear time and time again people are happy that have, you know, literally nothing in comparison. And I think it goes back to that normalization of when you get exposed to, and I think what you get exposed to growing up, like we had a father that you know it was always the best, it was the. You got to get the best, the best seats, the best, the best steak, and it was like kind of ingrained us, like if I'm going to buy something, the more expensive it is, the better it is. That was kind of ingrained, at least into me, and so maybe it is a point in time and maybe it is tongue in cheek to actually even say it. It's like, well, it's easy now that you've got there, it, it, it's really hard to explain.
Speaker 1:I know several people that haven't gone down that path and that are really, really happy. So if money was really the true happiness, if it really made you happy. I think there would be proof in that right, and there are. People wouldn't be able to be happy with lower amounts of money. But again, it goes back to what do you value and what do you need to be happy. And the truth is is you don't like if you ended up selling your house and moving into a tiny home, your kids would probably adjust and they wouldn't. Your wife may not love it but, like your kids would normalize that they're with you and that's what they have and that's what they know. And they may get made fun of or they may struggle with some things, you know, if they socially don't have the nice clothes or they can't fit into the community, whatever that is for you. But I think you can normalize to the situation.
Speaker 3:I think money buys happiness, but just very temporarily. I mean you buy the one thing or the new thing and that brings happiness. So it's very fleeting. It's very fleeting.
Speaker 2:Let's talk about the other comment that was made, because I think this is a big thing that's eroded over the last. I think I used the term a couple podcasts ago 70 years, and that is this feeling of and this. We're going to say this word, I'm just going to call it out probably 200 times over these next couple of episodes. But community, you know, I think when we were growing up, and even more so before we were born I was born in the late 70s it really did take a village, like we were at our friends' houses all the time, and I think again we'll make some assumptions. We could bring a parent or two on to talk through this.
Speaker 2:But I think back in that time, you know, houses were a little smaller and maybe the parents didn't want to be in that close of proximity to us at all times and so they would send you down the street and you'd play with this particular person or down the street.
Speaker 2:And I think you hear stories from when our parents were younger like it was all the time it was just doors wide open, people in and out of houses, up and down, playing in the street doing this, that and the other thing, and you street doing this dad and the other thing, and you got exposed to this community and everybody was helping raise everybody else. And now you know, in some circumstances and not everywhere, and we're in a unique place. Now you have, you know, a 14,000 square foot house with your basketball court indoor and your full fitness facility and everything you could ever need under one roof, and you never even have to leave your house with DoorDash and Instacart or whatever it is. And, like I think you said, you're kind of cutting yourself off from society as a whole and I don't necessarily know if that's a positive thing, especially, again, like you alluded to, we're so wired to be social animals.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you're 100% right. I think you need to use your resources for good, bring people together and create memorable experiences for your family and for others. I think God wants us to be good stewards of the resources that he's given all of us, whatever amount that is, and I do think that's why there's clubs and teams and there was a lot more of that. You used to have neighborhood associations. People would get together and they would do things and it's you know. We've kind of replaced that with technology and I think parents can just sit there and I mean we've all been in the doom scroll before, right, and hours go by and you're like, oh okay, you got to be real intentional to create the time for you and your family, but you have to be even more intentional to create time with other kids right To build community.
Speaker 1:Our mom made sure we had playdates. I mean, I had playdates all the time. It was like Friday playdates and putting in that work to create that is super important and I know some people are awesome at it and they're really good at it. We're subpar at best and I'm sure it depends on every situation, but I think that's essential for development. They talk about kids and what kids need is more playtime, but it needs to be unsupervised playtime. They need to be in the schoolyard and they need to get tripped and hit in the head and figure out and go through and really start to navigate some of these situations so they can't run to mom and dad when things go wrong. So, regardless of amount of money, choosing a lifestyle that is inclusive of other people I think is super important.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think for me, the whole lifestyle thing it goes back to expectations, and I think that's the hard part is it's so easy to adjust your expectations to your standard of living, and the same thing for your kids, and I'm always trying to be mindful of not to set myself up to with expectations that can't be fulfilled by reality. I'm trying to think of exactly how I phrased this or how I read this, but basically, happiness is reality minus expectations, which is a really, really fascinating formula if you really pause and digest that. So happiness is reality minus expectations. So to me, expectations are just that silent assassin at the end of that formula that can just be a grim reaper of happiness if they're too high, and I think that's probably most subject to our kids, especially if they're too high, and I think that's probably most subject to our kids who are, you know, especially if they're growing up in environments where the standard of living that they happen to be, a part of that they haven't had to work for yet, is on the higher end. There's a lot of room underneath that, and so where their expectations are going to be in, relative to the work that it's going to take to get there, it's a real dangerous place to be.
Speaker 3:And so for me it's just a constant battle of trying to manage expectations and trying to keep those as low as possible. Because you said in those third world countries and I've been down, I've been for 12 years now going down to the Dominican Republic to partner with an organization down there and there is a lot of devastating things down there don't get me wrong in terms of the standard of living and we're invested in doing what we can to help that community and create a model for other communities to replicate to get out of that. I will also say I've experienced a lot of kids down there who have absolutely nothing and are happy, not because the reality is so substantial, but their expectations are so low. And so for me, that battle of trying to navigate that is something not only for my kids, but for me that it's a day-to-day challenge.
Speaker 2:How do you think this is? This has always been a question, something I've always wondered. Uh, there was a comment made. So you know, I referenced a documentary that we made on one documentary we made on one of our races and a particular individual that was running the race. He got interviewed and he was making a comment about so in in this particular race again, I'll restateate it you run a loop that's four miles long. Well, part of this loop there's a playground and on this playground you see these kids, and the kids are there cheering their parents on for the majority of the race, and his comment was that these kids are being normalized. Oh, mom just goes and runs 50 miles, or dad goes out and runs 100 miles, and I play on the playground for 24 hours and and they're being alley-ooped was the word he used in life. That's the baseline.
Speaker 2:I've always been curious about this. There is a lot of commentary in the political sphere, especially being this is December, so right after November, right after an election cycle, just this is December, so right after November, right after an election cycle, where there's commentary about equal, equal opportunity and, you know, making sure everybody I forget the way it's phrased it's with equal, equal outcome for equality versus outcome. It's I don't know equality versus. Do you know what I'm trying?
Speaker 3:to.
Speaker 2:I know what you're talking about going but anyways, you know, we we talk about exposure and I I often wonder if you are. You just made a comment about there being a lot below your children in terms of if. If they're starting at a particular level, there's a long way to fall. But is setting these expectations via the lifestyle you've curated does that alley you that particular person? For instance I'll use a random example If your father is a Wall Street banker and his life is all around money, or a guy who works in that financial sector and he makes $50 million a year, and that's kind of the basis, and everybody that he's surrounded by is kind of in that same world, is it just kind of natural as a human to adopt the characteristics that got him there, that you're surrounded by, and that becomes your starting point, you know, do you believe that that's true? I mean, you know.
Speaker 3:I think it can be.
Speaker 3:I think we, whether you're born into that or whether you achieve it on some sort of level, uh, for a period of time, I think you're, you absolutely can, your expectations can adjust to that.
Speaker 3:I've always, I've I don't know if I heard this somewhere, I uh, it just came to me, but I've always kind of leaned into a phrase I would call post-stardom depression, right, in that you find at least and maybe this is just media coverage of it but a lot of child stars who are on these monstrous stages, or even musicians or others who you know are in these places where you have thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people I don't want to say worshiping you, but looking up to you and kind of following you and just interested in every step and move you make.
Speaker 3:I think it's you know when that goes, it's really hard to adjust, and so I do think there's a sense of now, I think, to some parents credit. I think some parents probably do a really good job of doing their best to bring awareness to that right. I think there is a way to do that to bring awareness to the uniqueness of the situation, to the rarity of the situation, and to help build that. So I'm sure it's a little bit of both, but I think there's some reality there.
Speaker 1:I would add. I think it's part of the climb. I read something similar that said people who go from zero to a hundred really quickly. So like YouTube, sensation goes from zero to 50 million subscribers in a short period of time. The fall after that is much more dramatic the ones that had to work for it over time and had a gradual build. I think it's what the kid sees. I think it's again.
Speaker 1:It'll go back to what the parent values during that process. If the wall street banker is, is he's valuing? You know, going to expensive dinners and fancy things all the time, and that's all the kid knows. And then I think kids will either run towards it or run away from it. Right, because you kind of see them going one way or the other, like I don't want to be anything like my dad because I don't value any of the things that he values and he puts all this emphasis here.
Speaker 1:Or there's an instance where kids may not feel like they can live up to their parents and they just feel defeated. I've seen a situation where that's come in. It's like mom or dad or whatever has been so successful. I don't feel like I'm ever going to be good enough, and that can cause issues. So I think it's something you have to be very careful of. I think it's okay to do fun and nice things. The less you talk about the cost of it, probably the better with your kids. But there are certain things in your life where, if you can afford it and you go for something, it things in your life where you know if you can afford it and you go for something, it will have an impact and your kids will see you know what you choose to do. So you have to decide if it's worth it or not.
Speaker 3:I think that that, too, is a brings up an interesting point of if you do have resources, where do you use it, where do you spend it? And you know we've talked about athletic training for them. You we've talked about about there are schooling or certain things that you can invest in. There's obviously, things that you can buy in terms of the home and things that you're living in. I don't know. That's always an interesting dynamic for me. I don't know that there's a right answer, necessarily, but if you do have the resources, or should you save it? This gets to be philosophical pretty quick. But if there is a good place to spend the money, is it on some people say experiences, or is it on the development of your kids in some fashion? Or or again, is it best to just sock it away or give it away?
Speaker 2:it's a interesting dynamic well, I think that you know you make a good point. I don't think there is a right way. You know if you can agree as point. I don't think there is a right way you know if you can agree as a family and discuss it and figure out as a family, the best way for you to utilize whatever it is that you have available to you, whether that be money or connections. I think where I, where I struggle and I think this is where this conversation could get really interesting, especially for you, because you have the child where what you do as a family and the way you choose to live your life and curate your lifestyle is held against your child.
Speaker 2:I think we've seen this. Unfortunately for the three guys sitting in front of you, we are at the top of the not cool food chain in terms of the political sphere. Right Successful white male is not the place to be, and so there's a lot of and I think we obviously have seen some backlash and pushback against that, but there's a lot of vitriol that's kind of thrown this way, just based on what you were born into, what color you are, where you live, whatever.
Speaker 3:Just to clarify your point there in terms of it not being the place to be, not that it's horrible or hard to be a white male, but to your point, I think, in terms of speaking out politically or those sorts of things, there's a disinterest in this perspective because there's an assumed bias that we have had, a certain which I'm not debating, maybe you know, certainly valid that we have had kind of a favorable, the deck has been stacked for us in a sense right, and so I think, when it comes to assessing that sort of thing and to go back to your thing is equity versus equality, giving everyone the same support or giving support based on need, and when there starts to be discussions of that, yes, I think our voices can get muted very quickly, and maybe that's right and maybe not, but yeah, I keep trying to clarify.
Speaker 2:No, that's really well articulated, but I want to go back to my other point, I guess, about that being held against our kids by other people, maybe even adults in certain circumstances, because of the way you choose to have. You experienced that at all really?
Speaker 1:That's a great question. I try not to look into that stuff. That's a financial standpoint and I try to do that at a level that helps everybody that's involved. So I don't know if that answers your question, but you'd have to ask my oldest. I know he gets it a little bit for just the family he comes from. Sure, that's, it's legit.
Speaker 2:I know this isn't. I mean, I know this isn't as easy as a conversation as the last three have been. So I mean, given the foundation that we've kind of laid throughout this episode already, are there any other you know perspectives you guys have on this particular topic as a whole so we can continue down that path?
Speaker 3:It's an interesting one, you know. I think I've hit on kind of the things that perplex me and that I continue to give thought to. I think it's again just navigating expectations and standard of living and some of the impulsiveness TJ you talked about. What is tough about today's society is everything is so immediately available. 50 years ago when you had an impulse to buy something, there were a lot more barriers to you actually getting there and actually making that purchase and by the time you got through all those barriers you realized you didn't actually want it that bad. And in today's day and age, the impulses and the availability of that stuff, you can get it quickly and then all of a sudden you're normalized into this new environment.
Speaker 3:It's almost impossible these days and I say impossible, it's not impossible, but it is becoming increasingly difficult, we'll say to manage your standard of living. You know they say like it's really impossible to generate wealth by increases in salary, because every time you get a small increase in salary there are so many infinite ways for you to consume that additional with your standard of living and not that it's like in a negative fashion. You may be investing in your kid's development or other. You know very wholesome. You know, things that have a long-term payoff. That may be great, but it's.
Speaker 3:It's very tough to fight those impulses that can be acted on so quickly and avoid falling into that trap of then your expectations increasing and slowly continuing to increase your standard of living. Because we all came out of college and I think we're making very modest salaries right and very, I think, in line with what people would be making at that time in their lives and we got by just fine and, granted, we're supporting more individuals. But even when you adjust for that, the standard of living that we had at that point, we were all perfectly fine and equally happy. Arguably, compared to some of the resources and opportunities that have been afforded to us since then, again, just the standard of living has adjusted and kudos to the marketers out there that find ways to get our attention span and get us to spend the money. They're very good at it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is a very complex model. What I love about what you guys are talking about is it does go back to community and who you spend your time with, um, and I think that does have a big influence on how you spend your money, um, and the type of lifestyle you choose, cause it's not just about money and things, experiences and, um, what you want to create for your children and what you want you know. But again, if you go back to resume versus eulogy, this is another kind of point. It's like your money in your life. I mean, if you have any Christian beliefs, it's to live a more frugal life and it's to give more right, it's to focus on helping others, and I think there's a struggle for people that, especially Christians in general, that have done well.
Speaker 1:I think there is a natural tension there. I think there's a tension that how much should I give? Or how much, you know, if I make $50 million a year, is it okay to have a private jet at that point, like, at what point do I get the private jet? At what level do I get the second home? And I think those are really hard to wrestle with. I've never come to a point where it's like okay, you know, I've gotten here, and now that checks that box. Now it's on to the next thing.
Speaker 1:It's a if you're dialed in spiritually and you're focusing on, you know what God has called you to do I think you're always going to wrestle with am I spending too much? Am I giving too much away? And I think that's a healthy battle. I think it's something that you need to constantly be thinking about is like am I being a good steward, even the things that I'm using for our own lifestyle? Am I using those? Well, are there ways that I can give better, ways that I can give better? And that battle should continue on because if it goes unchecked, it can get really dangerous. And again, I think you become a slave to things and a slave to a lifestyle that nobody wants to be house poor and nobody wants to be in a situation where I got the nice house, but now I've got so much pressure on me I can't even live. Where would you?
Speaker 3:guys say and TJ, I'm interested in you expanding more. I know you've done a lot of question asking, but I'll kind of target this question and then expand on that when would you guys say you've found the highest ROI in where you've put your money at different times over the last decade or so? Where do you find that from a fulfillment perspective and looking back, you know, distancing yourself from where you did that that you find most gratification, satisfaction where you spent?
Speaker 2:It's funny you say that because I was just about to pose the same question and again, I had another conversation with an individual the other day that was thinking about that from the perspective and it was a little what do you call it? He called it a little macabre or something to that effect. But, like you know, if you were on your deathbed and you had and this kind of goes back to the eulogy comment or you only had a particular amount of time to live, what would you strip away? Had a particular amount of time to live, what would you strip away? You know and I think you can take that and look retrospectively on what you had the biggest ROI on. And I would say that, you know, I think we started this a couple of years ago and you may have been the first one to mention it was this experience thing and I think that's become more of a thing for us and I think it's because of the abundance of things out there. You know, when we were young, I think toys held more worth for us because you didn't get toys very often, you know, once or twice or three times a year because of the barriers in the way, because you know we didn't grow up in an environment that had an economic system where you know you have things like Timu and Shein and all these other different sites where you can buy things for a dollar or two dollars or three dollars that are fairly extra. It's so. It's it's just crazy. You know that.
Speaker 2:I think the experience thing has been a really big ROI for us. And spending, spending time and effort on top of money, really trying to uncover scenarios where you can spend a lot of quality time. I think that would be an important thing. That's relative to family, I think, from a personal perspective doing we talked about this in episode one doing epic things with friends and investing there. I mean, I can't tell you how many times we're around people. It's probably on a fairly regular basis and we revert to one of the half dozen relays that we've done at different places across the country. And it's probably on a fairly regular basis. And we revert to one of the half dozen relays that we've done at different places across the country. And it's not even necessarily the performances we've put forth, although they've been amazing, um, but it's the, the things that have occurred during that period in time, and some of these things are not that expensive. You know a lot of these we drive to. You know all in for a drivable relay. You're talking about three or $400 for a grown male adult, which isn't 10,000 or $15,000. So I think those things have been really impactful. I've seen a lot of ROI there and then I think I'm a little hesitant to say this because I wish it wasn't this way, but I'm definitely glad that we've invested to a point in personal development for the kids, whatever that is, whether that's academic or from a sports perspective. I think those things have been really big for us.
Speaker 2:I think there are some areas of work that I need to address. My wife and I are going to take, hopefully, a vacation here in the next couple of weeks. That's something that's kind of fallen by the wayside. I remember a friend a couple of years ago who had kids that were considerably older than ours saying that they felt like ships passing in the night, like they never talked because it was just school, work, sports, dinner, bed, um. So you know, making sure that we're also I'm also investing in that part of my life, because kids won't be here forever and you have a relationship that has to exist after the fact. So those are some of the areas that I have invested in that I feel like I've gotten good ROI on.
Speaker 2:There are other things that are a little more materialistic. You know that I would say like turns out, there is a kind of you get what you pay for. Turns out, there is a kind of you get what you pay for. So I always kind of get excited when I find something and I think you guys may feel the same. That really does like shift value. From an experience perspective, I think that can be exciting at times, because now it is like finding a needle in the haystack oh, I wanted to get a new base layer to run in this weather and there's 500 companies out there that are sending me Instagram feed or Instagram ads on this base layer that and you find one like the Tracksmith base layer and it's the best thing ever and you're so excited to tell everybody about it because you had to sift through this pile of hay to find this needle, um, and so I get excited about those things too. But, uh, yeah, I mean I would say those are some of the areas where I've seen the most return.
Speaker 1:I'll jump on. Experiences have definitely been one, and not just for my family, but for other people as well. So I've been in a couple of situations and we've been able to do some really fun things. And it's funny, it's like experiences with the family or with friends. You spend a couple of days going to war, whether it's a run or something else. Like those are the memories when you think about return on investment.
Speaker 1:But as you were talking, tj, I thought about what are the things that I remember like that have been like you know, me and you going down and doing Disney and taking a couple of our kids and we, we did the dopey and ran, you know, 5k, 10k, half marathon, full marathon, four days back to back 3am and crushed the parks and like we were just destroyed. But at the end of it it was like a memorable experience. And we got to go watch the Pacers play the Lakers at the. We went to Vegas with a couple of the kids, and so there's just been a lot of things that our kids and we've got to do, but it's really, it's about the journey, it's about the, it's not just about oh, we went to the Lakers game and went to Disney. It was like it was about the plane ride, it was about talking, it was about laughing at night, it was about setting all the things up and so just a. Really those are the things that I remember. And then you know, from the vein side, like you know, we built a lake house and one of the things about that is that has been a dream of my wife's. We live there in the summers and we spend it.
Speaker 1:It's an incredible family time for us and we've used that as well as a way to bring other people together, to use this as a space that we can come together. We can create memories. It was really important to me when we were doing Christmas, right, and before mom passed and our Christmases got. So we kept moving days around and it used to be like a couple hours on the 25th and then we all had kids and then we moved it to the 24th and then it was like you guys would get there at 10 AM and you'd have to leave by four and it was just.
Speaker 1:It felt so rushed and it was like man last year, having a place where we could come and stay and spend two days together, right, so for me that's the memory the kids all come together, we get to spend two days together, enjoying each other, not rushing from place to place to place, and so sometimes that puts you in a position where you can do some things on a broader scale, where you can create these memorable environments where people can have some experiences, like going on a boat or tubing or things or jet skis that they never would be able to do. So that has been a big thing for us. It was a big investment for us, but I'm continuing trying to find ways to work with other organizations about holding retreats here from a spiritual standpoint, as well as utilizing it for the broader family.
Speaker 2:I'm glad you brought that up because I think that's important. I think that potentially gives a lot of credence to other people who invest their money in, in homes that are similar to something like your lake house, you know, because they love entertaining people and they love providing experiences. I mean, I know this and unfortunately you've set me up for failure. But you know you were, you know you worked out, kind enough to have my kids out skiing a couple of times.
Speaker 2:Now it's their favorite thing in the world to do, and dad may never be able to take them again.
Speaker 1:Come on, we're going in March, but like they're.
Speaker 2:So it was such a memorable experience for them and, you know, I think it goes to show that you know, if you're, if you're lucky enough to have those kinds of experiences, it, you know it's, there was really not a ton of investment on my part and you can create those experiences. Um, on the other side of the coin again, not your side, my side of the coin you know, it could be as simple as, like you said, going downstairs and playing Madden. You said that, like these little things going in and having, you know, driving a state away. Um, you know, one of the things I think my daughter will always remember is we'll go down for um to get sports related right, but like driving down for national cross-country championships. It's in kentucky, it's a three hour drive, but she's so excited to go and stay the night in a hotel and, you know, go run and get a sweatshirt from the event afterwards to kind of commemorate that and you guys went to Oregon too, didn't you?
Speaker 2:I mean, I did, I took her to Oregon, to the Prefontaine Classic last year and she got to meet all of these track athletes and those kinds of things. You know, luckily, with my job I travel a ton. So, again, not a huge investment for me because airfare is covered and things like that, um, with mileage and whatnot, but but yeah, I mean it doesn't have to be extravagant. Those are the things that, the kind of the diamonds in the rough. I think the more time you spend curating the experience and really putting it together, the more valuable it it is at the end of the day. So you know, I think I think it takes it's like spending time on a present for a holiday. You know, for my 40th you guys didn't buy me anything.
Speaker 2:You set up a relay race and you you knew that's what I liked and that's my personality and to this day it's probably the most Epic relay race we've ever done, just based on the circumstances and the fact that we won a 200 mile relay by like 35 seconds with a bunch of guys from Marion. So you know, I think those are the types of experiences that you put. You put time and effort into as opposed to going to something. They can still be fun, right. But investing in like a commercialized experience like Disney can be cool, but it's still Disney and it's still overly commercialized. And but again, I think if you put enough into it, like intricately planning to make sure that you get to do what you want to do when you want to do it, and it gets, it gets better. So I guess it's it's almost a.
Speaker 1:What I, what I hear you saying, is like intentionality. Right, it's like the intentionality behind what you're doing and I can say from, regardless of which side you sit on, like the person that's creating the memory or providing the memory, versus the one kind of being you know asked to be a part of it. It's like the fruits on both sides, like when we were out skiing with your kids and like me and you could like. It just reminded me back in the day when me and you were shredding and we could get out there and get after it. And probably the first and last time I'll be able to destroy you. From his quads, I think. I think he was injured, but tj is in incredible shape and um, I'll never forget the day we went out on my 40th and we had fresh powder on uh back on the back, bull and uh first run in veil.
Speaker 1:We had first first run. It was the most unbelievable thing. We I don't know how many times we did it, but like those things when you think about life and we're sitting here reflecting, they're starting to come back to life. Like those are the memories your kids learning to ski, like being able to teach people how to surf at the lake Like those are the things that people are going to remember. And that is eulogy stuff, because you're being intentional with your time, you're taking them out, you're having patience, you're learning, you're showing them something new, and sometimes it's expensive and sometimes it's not, but again, it's the intentionality behind it that makes it special, regardless of what the event is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you mentioned eulogy and that's probably how I would characterize it. I find the highest ROI things for me, as I look back, would be eulogy, builder type stuff. Some of it too, I would say, is you know, they say you can't pour from an empty cup. If I look back at the last 12 months and the best place I've probably invested was on a two day silent retreat it spent $185 and it was for two nights and included all food up the St Joseph retreat center in Tipton and for me to reorient myself spiritually and to come out of that fresh with so much clarity, I just I don't think I could put a price tag on that because that that pays. I mean, if I, if I'm changing kind of who I am and how I'm showing up, you know that pays dividends in every interaction that I have. And so if I were to say I would say that would be probably at or near the top of the list is investment to keep myself in a good place so I can pour from that cup. But beyond that, I think eulogy builders is, you know, the things that I would look back on with the most amount of gratitude.
Speaker 3:And it's hard right, because you guys were talking about this earlier on, but there's a verse in scripture about the lady with the two coins right and then everyone else giving of excess, who were given a hundred times what she was giving, but she was giving out of actual money that like, like you know, cut into her ability to live a comfortable life, and so I think that that's always the challenge in terms of the eulogy builders too Are you building your eulogy with excess or are you cutting into actual eulogy builders, too? Are you building your eulogy with excess or are you cutting into actual? Um you cutting into, you know, actual, you know funds that that you may have allotted elsewhere for your standard of living? Um, that's tough I think it's.
Speaker 2:I think it's kind of unfortunate.
Speaker 2:You know, with the marketing we talk a lot about, you brought up holidays at the lake house and the kids, and I think it's unfortunate that we're we're made to believe that the eulogy building stuff, that the epic things are these astronomically expensive experiences. One of the things I think would be a great topic of conversation and I know this has been an interesting way for this to unfold in terms of lifestyle, but I think all of these are elements of it is this, this Taylor Swift phenomenon and just live events in general phenomenon over the last year and a half. We're made to believe that some of these things are the things that are gonna define our lives, whereas the things that are going to define our lives where, where is curating the right set of games to play during a holiday event, you know um can be way more impactful. I think of the things we did as kids when we would go up to our grandmother's house, things as simple as recreating the uh manger scene and going through that whole deal Like that that was.
Speaker 2:We'll never forget that and some of the other stuff that we've done with our cousins over the years. But now it's unfortunately. You know we're made to believe that you have to spend any more with families of our sizes. It's five figures minimum to go to, to fly somewhere and get a hotel and stay for a week and and I think that's unfortunate because that's not always necessarily the the pinnacle.
Speaker 3:And I think the kids would agree with that.
Speaker 3:I mean when I look back at some of the times, I'm very surprised. When I ask the kids about certain memories or they bring up things that come to mind Rarely is it the large, huge, pinnacle-type peak experiences, the ones where you have to say do you know how much money we spent on this vacation? They'll remember just some of the normal things. Noah will say one of his favorite things is getting these quotes every day at the start of the day to start his day um, and it takes no money at all, and so I I think your point is really good, that, um, you can increase and multiply the roi with thought and intentionality, and so it's not necessarily what you're investing in, but it's also the thought you're putting behind it, I think, which is a very really good point, which is something I'm I'm terrible at some of the details.
Speaker 1:Was you brought that up? I just sitting here thinking I'm like one of the things we need to do is to sit down and plan the two days that you guys are here. What are the? What are the 10 games we're going to play with the 10 kids? Make it a memorable. So it's one thing to have them here, but then the second part of that is let's put some effort into planning it to make it fun, to make the gamification of it all to where they're not just here running around, which is fun too.
Speaker 3:They terrorize each other, Not running around just on screens yeah on screens.
Speaker 1:Or around just on screens yeah On screens, or they're doing whatever, uh, but I think there, there, there's, there's a lot to be said from an intentionality standpoint. Um, there's a lot of things you can do from a lifestyle standpoint that aren't that isn't around money, Um, but I don't think money is a bad thing either. If it's used in the right way, you can create some special memories. Sure, I think it's a great comment to wrap it up on. Okay, so thank you all for joining in. This was episode four and we got a little deep here with some personal stuff, but hopefully this continues to resonate with you guys and we look forward to seeing you on the next episode. Thanks for coming by.